Mr. John Barrett:

I will tell the Deputy how I see this. I think this is a very significant issue. I think, around this, I have a very substantial difference of opinion with the finance director. I think there is a very significant difference between outputs and outcomes. There may be memos and there may be meeting details, as Mr. Culhane outlined, but it changed nothing. The show went on. On my arrival in Templemore, I just could not believe what it was that sat in plain view and, despite all the memos and all of the history Mr. Culhane has referred to, that it continued in plain view, contrary to the blue book. While Mr. Kelly may be able to point to the fact that gardaí may not have had the training, the finance directorate cannot hide behind any such lack of knowledge. That is my concern.

This is not personal. Let us be clear. I want to respond to Deputy Cassells because I think it is a really good point. This is not some kind of Orwellian, four legs good, two legs bad - those who wear uniforms, those who do not. It is nothing to do with that. This is a fundamental issue about accountability around the public purse. We have an obligation to come before the committee and tell it the truth. The truth as I know it is written in the document that I shared with the committee. It is documented in real time. I have had contemporaneous discussions with Mr. Ruane throughout this and he has minuted those meetings. If the committee members want to take all of those details, and I would encourage them, they will see the sequence of events in its minutiae. However, the reality is I did not create this. I stumbled upon it. I did not get, "Let us resolve it", as the first response. That is a reality. Those who I would have imagined were statutorily responsible for dealing with matters like this did not race to my aid. No more than that do I need to say.