Mary Lou McDonald (Dublin Central, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

That is fine. I accept that Mr. Howard is no longer in position and appreciate he is here to assist us with our inquiries. However, this is off-the-wall stuff. Maybe those of us on the outside have different expectations of those on the inside who carry such significant responsibilities. Mr. Culhane directly and openly challenged the authority of Mr. Kelly, the internal auditor, on issues that Mr. Howard knew were serious, troubling, worrying and all of the other adjectives that have been used. The fact that this challenge was made is absolutely extraordinary but the fact that those charged with oversight were silent is absolutely disgraceful and inexplicable. I do not know in what kind of organisation that happens. Much has been said about culture but that does not even capture the toxicity of what we are seeing here. It is astonishing and, as a member of this committee, I am not satisfied with the answer Mr. Howard has provided or his stewardship of this series of events. As for Mr. Culhane-----