Paul Daly (Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I welcome both delegations and thank them most sincerely for their presentations. At this stage, almost a year down the line, we are all fairly well aware of the facts, figures and perceived consequences. Unfortunately, solutions are not that easily achieved from the point of view that, as we are all aware, we will be one of 27 when this negotiation gets down to the nitty gritty. Both organisations, and particularly the IFA, are world leaders when it comes to negotiating and lobbying. They are in Brussels more often than many in this House. I ask them what they gauge the feelings of the other 27 to be? I was out some while ago with a group from the Joint Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine. While it was not officially across the table, when we walked away from the table I certainly got the impression that, while we were talking about the CAP and CAP reform, they kept bringing up Brexit. Perhaps it is the cynic in me but I walked away saying to myself that these lads think they are being very sympathetic with our Brexit situation and that if they look after us in Brexit they will be entitled to wash us down the Swanee when it comes to the CAP. The Polish representative in particular made a point of the Russian embargo and of who looked after his country in that similar situation. The witnesses are preaching to the converted here and in the other House and when dealing with anybody who has a voice in this thing.

How do they see it going and, through their negotiations and lobbying in Europe, how do they see the views of the other members of the 27 about our agriculture sector? We are dealing with agriculture specifically, although there are so many other strands. As has been said, agriculture is probably on the back of the page when it comes to Theresa May's list of priorities. Therefore, how much negotiating time, when hard negotiations begin, will be allocated to agriculture?

Earlier we has the Ulster Farmers Union before us and I asked its members about how much contact it had with the IFA and Macra. They are all working well together. I think that is important from an all-island perspective. I said that to the Ulster Farmers Union. I know it is repetitive but the organisations are similar. Many people we have had before us, and many outside commentators, are flying a kite about Northern Ireland getting a special status after Brexit, which would help to maintain our all-island situation and minimise or eliminate the possibility of a hard border on the island.

It is a great idea in theory but if one analyses it from the perspective of agriculture, it means that our border is east, west. There will be an imaginary line in the Irish Sea between Ireland and the UK. Our milk situation, our pigmeat and everything else on the island will be sorted but we will need an agricultural border on the island, in my opinion. We will have farmers in the South who are still under the CAP while the Northern Ireland farmers, even if they are in an all-island agricultural model, will still be in the UK and will probably be outside of the CAP. A Northern Ireland farmer who exports across to England will not be paying a tariff but farmers south of the Border potentially would be paying such a tariff. We could have a segregation of the island. What a lot of people are putting forward as one of the better scenarios could be, from an agricultural perspective, a time bomb. Maybe I am wrong and I would like to hear the opinion of the witnesses on that.

While not wanting to pre-empt the response to Senator Craughwell's question, there is nowhere else to go with cheddar. Even if we built a cheddar mountain, it would still have to be eaten by the English because the Europeans would not want it nor would the Chinese. In that context, where do we go? Where do we go with mushrooms? Before the Brexit vote we were scouring the world for new markets. I used an analogy previously of being tortured with an ingrown toe nail, but if one hits one's thumb with a hammer, one will forget all about the toenail. That does not mean that it is cured or that the pain has gone away. It merely means that the thumb becomes the priority. Brexit has become our priority but we had a lot of problems before the vote. We were already scouring the world, looking for markets. What new markets do we think are going to mushroom - pardon the pun - in the aftermath of Brexit that were not there previously? Bord Bia and so many other agencies have been out there, trying to get new markets. There are not going to be any new markets. The market is still there. The English are still going to have to eat. In that context, can the witnesses see any bright light in this? Is there any positive potential in any one of the possible outcomes? We are in a bubble here in the sense that we are talking about the unknown. The only certainty here is uncertainty. We must, for the purposes of our report, get as much feedback from as many different perspectives as possible. We must examine the various scenarios, from worst case to best. I ask the witnesses to elaborate on these points.