Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour) | Oireachtas source

There are a few issues we must discuss before proceeding. The matters raised last week are serious not just for the Committee of Public Accounts but for the State. I have the transcript of last week's meeting and I have read it a couple of times. It is incredible to do so in conjunction with the documents that Mr. Barrett has now sent us. It is like a jigsaw but the problem is the pieces do not fit. There are contradictions all over the place. There were contradictions in the evidence last week with the Garda Commissioner and her staff and between the Department personnel and Garda Commissioner, when they basically said opposite things. The Garda Commissioner stated last week she started a process after the meeting of 27 July but was that process not begun beforehand, on 2 July by Mr. Cyril Dunne, the head of administration? Did he not commence that process before the Garda Commissioner said she commenced her process? In evidence, the Garda Commissioner said she started a process and the Department of Justice and Equality - representatives of which are coming before us in a few minutes - was involved straight away. It is my understanding that may not be the case and it might not have been brought into the process until October. It is important that the assistant secretary who sat here last week said the Department was not aware of the issues relating to Templemore until October. If it was involved with the process from July, how was it not aware of the issues until October? How in the name of God is there a Department of justice that is not aware of these issues in the first place, given the Vote it must manage? Frankly, it is incredible.

I have another point before moving on. On 12 April I raised many of these issues in Dáil Éireann. In evidence last week, the Garda Commissioner and every witness, including those from the Department of Justice and Equality, stated they were not aware of the very specific issues I raised involving dates, times and people mentioned in the Dáil on 12 April. How is that possible? There was a motion of no confidence in the Garda Commissioner but the Department of Justice and Equality, the Garda Commissioner and all the staff were not aware these issues were raised. It is incredible.

This is incredibly serious and I agree with the previous speaker and the comments of the Chairman on the national airwaves. We must deal with this quickly. I do not believe we will deal with it in one meeting and if we need special sittings, we should have them. We should do that very soon, possibly starting the process in a fortnight. How far are we going to go with this? This goes very deep and there are layers of issues. There is a gold, silver and bronze amount of issues here. There is the matter of what happened with the Garda Commissioner over the past couple of years. There is the matter of how the internal auditor was not made aware of reports in 2006, 2008, 2010 and 2015. There are also the issues relating to Templemore. Mr. Cyril Dunne has left the organisation and Mr. Michael Howard is the external auditor. Ms Anne-Marie McMahon has certain knowledge about Templemore. Will we look into these matters by bringing in everybody who was here last week? Will former Garda Commissioners be invited in? Will we bring in the individuals who were here last week, those who have left the organisation or those who are currently in the organisation and who have critical knowledge? Assistant Garda Commissioner Twomey has been referenced numerous times. These are critical issues we need to decide now on behalf of this country so we can get to the bottom of what is going on.