Seán Fleming (Laois, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

We will write again this morning to ask for that. It was stated in court that the Deloitte report was not completed. We will ask if it has been completed since then. We were told we would get a copy of it once it was completed. We will ask the HSE if it has been completed and, if so, to forward a copy to us.

The next item is correspondence No. 470C, (i) to (iv), from Deputy Thomas Broughan, enclosing copies of figures provided by the group Promoting Awareness Responsibility and Care on the Roads, PARC, in relation to drink-driving offences. I propose that we send these figures to the Department for a response. Is that agreed? Agreed. I thank Deputy Broughan for the work done in that regard.

The next item is correspondence No. 471C (i) and (ii) from an individual which is dated 9 May relating to Howth Harbour, the management of which is the responsibility of the Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine. We also received another item of correspondence from the same individual last week and, as agreed, the clerk contacted the individual and clarified that the matter is being examined by the Ombudsman. The individual told the clerk that although he was thankful that the previous Committee of Public Accounts took an interest in this matter, he feels that raising matters with the committee did not help in terms of how he has been treated by the relevant authorities. I propose that we let the Ombudsman conclude his investigation and write to the individual to say that if there are matters outside of that investigation which this committee should examine, to itemise these for our consideration. We will write back to him on that basis.

The next item is correspondence No. 468 B, (i) and (ii), a report from Mr. John Barrett. We will not conduct an analysis of this report now but we have a substantial document in front of us today. I want to make a number of observations arising from this document, which follows last week's meeting. The first observation I will make, about which there is no dispute, is that the matters were brought to the attention of the Garda Commissioner in July 2015 and 22 months later, she still has not gotten to the bottom of them. I would argue that 22 months is long enough to have dealt with an in-house matter in An Garda Síochána. I am not satisfied that the Committee of Public Accounts was told last week that further audit work may not even be completed by the summer. This committee is not going to wait beyond two years for a follow-through on these matters. These matters were known in 2015 and were probably known to the Commissioner in 2014 when she was acting Commissioner. In 2014, repayments to the OPW had started on foot of people being aware of the situation at that stage. This is not a legacy issue. It is an issue that is current to the current Commissioner. It was brought to her notice on her watch and she has known about it for the past 22 months. The meeting last week was outstanding but was not the conclusion of this matter. We will want to see a further response sooner rather than later.

Ms Nóirín O'Sullivan has two roles. She is the Garda Commissioner and is answerable to the Minister for Justice and Equality in that respect. She is also the Accounting Officer for An Garda Síochána and is answerable to the Committee of Public Accounts for financial matters. I just want to read something into the record so that everybody is clear on the position of the Committee of Public Accounts. The 2015 annual report of the Comptroller and Auditor General refers to the responsibilities of Accounting Officers. It states:

In accordance with section 22 of the Exchequer and Audit Departments Act 1886, the Accounting Officer is required to prepare the appropriation account. By law, the account must be submitted to me [the Comptroller and Auditor General] by 31 March following the end of the year of the account.

The Accounting officer is also responsible for the safeguarding of public funds and property under her control, for the efficiency and economy of administration of An Garda Síochána and for the regularity and propriety of all transactions in the appropriation account.

The Department of Public Expenditure and Reform published a document which was prepared by the current General Secretary of that Department for this committee. It states:

In their Accounting Officer role, which is personal and cannot be delegated, they are responsible for the stewardship of public funds and are required to give evidence on how they discharged this responsibility to the PAC.

It goes on:

The fact that the duties of the Accounting Officer are vested in the most senior official in the organisation, who is personally answerable to the PAC, gives an important focus to managerial accountability for regularity, propriety and value for money in the operations of the Department.. The Accounting Officer cannot be acquainted with the detail of every transaction in the [organisation]. He/she ensures that proper mechanisms are in place to provide appropriate assurance about the regularity, propriety and efficiency of the [organisation's] operations. These mechanisms are robust internal control systems; sound internal audit and Audit Committee arrangements; and effective risk management

The Department of Public Expenditure document elaborates further on the role of the Accounting Officer.

Ms. Nóirín O'Sullivan is the Accounting Officer to this committee. She is not here solely as Garda Commissioner but has a dual role. The Accounting Officer's responsibilities are also set out in the Comptroller and Auditor General Act 1993. I will not go through that now. The statutory responsibilities of Accounting Officers vis-à-visthe appropriation accounts are very clear. The accounts, which are submitted to the Comptroller and Auditor General, must be accompanied by a statement of internal financial control. In addition, the Accounting Officer is responsible for safeguarding assets, the financial implications of policy, economy and efficiency, evaluation of effectiveness, internal audit, sanctions and grant procedures. Those duties are personal to the Accounting Officer. Our discussions here are in relation to the Accounting Officer.

I will invite members to comment on this presently. As I have said already, these matters were brought to the attention of the Garda Commissioner in July 2015 but 22 months later, we still have not got to the bottom of it all. This committee - I am sure the members will agree with me on this - is not waiting any longer because 22 months is long enough for her to have gotten to the bottom of this. The promise of another internal report, possibly after July 2017, is not the issue. There is enough information in the interim report that was concluded in September 2016.

I want to move on to one other point about which I am personally concerned. It might seem like a small point to some but it is significant, in my view.

We all know about the meeting held in July 2015. Several months later, in 29 March 2016, the deputy commissioner requested an internal audit report on the Garda College in Templemore. That is mentioned on page 10 of the report that we saw last week. In September 2016 the interim audit report was presented to the head of the internal audit unit. That was the first draft. The reason I am referring to it is the correspondence received from Mr. Barrett refers to the fact that the head of the internal audit unit did very well to have the matter referred to in the statement of accounting policies and principles signed by the Accounting Officer on the 2015 accounts. That was all agreed to in the first few days of September. The Comptroller and Auditor General signed his audit report on 5 September 2016 on the 2015 accounts. As a result of the internal audit, these matters were coming to a head. The Comptroller and Auditor General insisted on there being some reference to them. When I look at the statement of accounting policies and principles on page 318 of the 2015 appropriation accounts, signed by Nóirín O’Sullivan, Accounting Officer of An Garda Síochána, on 31 March 2016, the last paragraph reads as follows:

Audit of the Garda College

A number of issues associated with the provision of ancillary services in the Garda College, Templemore, have been identified which are not in compliance with current public standard corporate governance procedures. A draft internal audit report has made a number of recommendations to ensure compliance with the public financial procedures which will be incorporated into any action plan to address these issues.

As Chairman of the Committee of Public Accounts, that paragraph could only have been drafted and agreed to in the first week of September 2016. The Accounting Officer, Nóirín O’Sullivan, signed the document to include that paragraph later than 31 March. That is the one signed document she has presented here before today. Essentially, for items agreed to in September 2016, she backdated her signature by over five months. I do not find it satisfactory that an Accounting Officer presented the appropriation accounts and the statement of accounting policies and principles to deal with matters to be dealt with in September 2016 and signed and dated them 31 March 2016. I find it unacceptable; it is not accurate or appropriate. I have to question the honesty of people who sign documents and have them backdated by over five months. I will be requesting her to come and answer that specific question, the reason being that she would probably have prepared a draft – I am now trying to help her – as there is a requirement to produce the accounts for the Comptroller and Auditor General by 31 March, but it would have been far more honest if she had re-dated them in September, the day before the Comptroller and Auditor General issued his report. I am not going to place any responsibility on the Comptroller and Auditor General who published the document. His audit report of 5 September is clear. This is the document signed by Nóirín O’Sullivan as Accounting Officer. I will ask the Comptroller and Auditor General to respond. It might seem to be a small matter.