Éamon Ó Cuív (Galway West, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

On the de minimispoint, I cannot agree that the problem is not in Brussels. When I was the Minister for Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs, I went over to Brussels several times when the 2007-14 Leader programme - not the present one - was coming in. I had a modest demand, which was that the de minimisthreshold would be increased to €400,000. It is ridiculous to think that giving €400,000 to a group in Connemara, Rathmore or wherever would interfere with international competition. It is absolutely bizarre but, to be honest, I got a deaf hear. DG Competition did not want to know although DG Agriculture was reasonably sympathetic at the time because the Commissioner was sympathetic to rural development as opposed to purely agriculture. It is a major problem.

This leads me to another problem that I have found in my experience in dealing with rural development. I do not know if the witnesses have come against it. There seems to be a belief that when we seek to develop something in the cities hundreds of millions are needed, but that we will solve the problems of rural Ireland for €10,000, €50,000 and €100,000 here and there and that we do not need millions. It is in that mindset that de minimisrules are nested.

I will put one more side to it. When I eventually got beaten by Brussels - I could not change it as it would have to have been changed across the European Union - I introduced in a previous Leader programme that it would be a non-profitable thing. I got around the de minimisrules by saying we would give a grant of up to €500,000 to a not-for-profit, non-commercial operation under Leader as opposed to €200,000 if it was commercial. I could not do anything about the European law.

Am I right in thinking and would the witnesses agree that if we are really going to develop parishes or areas such as Sliabh Luachra or deisceart Chonamara - is féidir dul siar go Carna agus suas na cnoic - go bhfuil muid ag caint ar na milliúin is na milliúin agus ní ar na céadta míle? Nach bhfuil sé ach ag cur daoine amú a bheith ag caint ar na céadta míle seachas na milliúin?