Dr. Niall Muldoon:

I will answer some of the other questions. I think we can go a long way to make it easier for children. That is a key point. Yesterday, Fred McBride of Tusla said he would engage with the inter-agency working group. The judges are happy to do that as well. We can find many ways to do it. Examples in medicine show how we have come a long way in allowing children to find comfort in difficult situations. We can make our court systems and environment better. We can ensure the professionals who work there are better equipped to work with children.

Reference was made to non-verbal expression. That is part of the reason we are keen for a wider expanse of professionals. We can hear the voice of a child, no matter what the age or disability and no matter what issues are going on, once the right person is working with him or her. It may take a little longer and it may take some time, but I believe it is worth it. Often, we have seen cases where it can take six or 12 months of being in and out of court. During that time we can really get a chance to work with and learn about a child and bring forward the voice in a proper way.

A question was asked about numbers. I believe there is a shortage of data in that respect. The transcript from two weeks ago suggests 1,600 guardians ad litemwere available to the children not in voluntary care. That leaves approximately 6,300 in care. Approximately 50% of them have access to a guardian ad litem. The figure that seems to be abroad is 1,600. Again, that is a guess. This is one of the benefits that will come from the new independent agency. We will be able to know who got the service, why and when.

Our vision is that this agency will be built up. If we set ourselves a target of putting forward the best possible agency, we can make it available for all the children with issues across court services. Non-voluntary care would be available to them. It would help children who have mental health issues and children with disabilities. It would operate across the range. We have a range of opportunities now. Other Bills have mentioned special reporters or experts. This service could provide all of these in one setting. There is a great opportunity to be a world leader in this field.

Deputy O'Sullivan referred to specific amendments. They are in our submission.

I agree with Deputy Ó Laoghaire in respect of the comment on a conflict of interest. The perception is crucial. It is the most obvious thing. Let us suppose we came back in ten years to look at a case and a child made the case that he was not looked after properly. The first question is who the paymaster was and whether there could have been a conflict of interest. It would be difficult to prove that there was not if the two representatives in court are paid by the same paymaster, though Tusla. That would make it difficult to have a perception of fairness. It is not impossible, but it would make it extremely difficult. If we can fix it now, it makes more sense to go in a different direction.

Reference was made to high costs by comparison with speech and language services. Undoubtedly, we need to work on both areas. We need to ensure resources are available for all the children who need speech and language support as well as any advocacy within their world. Children in foster care have extraordinary advocates working for them, whether parents or foster parents. They fight hard for the rights of the children. They need to be assisted through economic social and cultural rights becoming part of our constitutional rights. We need to know that children in foster care have an advocate, voice, parent, foster parent or social worker who can help them. The children in the Courts Service need guardians ad litemnow. It should not be a case of either-or. We need to find a way to make it work better. This new system should allow the money that is being spent to prevent further cases. It should allow children to have a better voice and provide better solutions for them.

This is the whole idea. We bring them into the system ant they give us their sense of it. In that way we will improve the outcome for them. That is the essence of this. That, in turn, should reduce the long-term harm done to children by listening to adults talk about what the child needs.