Jim Daly (Cork South West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Deputy. I wish to make some comments before the deputations come in again. When answering the questions, please keep specifically to this legislation as opposed to straying into other legislation, something we could tend to do.

I wish to make three brief points. As I said the last day, I have a major issue with the costs. The costs are astronomical. Can anyone before the committee set out the number of children who have availed of guardian ad litemservices in the courts last year? Is it possible to get a figure? A total of 6,500 children are in State care but the vast majority have not have availed of the service. I am unsure of the answer. Can the deputations direct me? How can I find out how many children have received the service?

The cost is €15 million per annum. By comparison, the cost of running the Office of the Ombudsman for Children is in the region of €2 million and it gives a voice to hundreds of thousands of children, potentially. The other service gives a voice in the courts but it is extraordinarily expensive. That is a major issue. It goes back to the issue of qualifications that has been addressed by many members.

The representatives from EPIC suggested we should have both. Perhaps we can turn that on its head. A good advocate would give the child adequate voice. Does a child need to have a barrister-at-law representing him in the courts? I am not so sure. I am not convinced of that. As I said the last day, we are giving a voice to children in court when we cannot get speech and language therapy for these same children who are in the care of the State. Trying to get speech and language therapy is an uphill battle, although that gives them a voice in everyday living. I appreciate the importance of giving them a voice in court, but we have to keep it in perspective in respect of the cost.

Another issue relates to the numbers. Someone referred to the children in voluntary care. Many children are in voluntary care. If a mother puts her child in the care of the State, there is no court case or at least it is not contested. That is one situation. In other situations where children are given to care until they are 18 years of age, that does not arise. I am curious about the real numbers as opposed to the broad numbers being put about.

Mental capacity has been addressed by several people. I have some first-hand knowledge of this. Some children in the care of the State can be up to seven or eight years of age and may have no ability to speak for themselves or explain what would be in their best interests. That issue has to be addressed and recognised in this legislation. We need to consider the age factor in respect of when a child can make an input into what is best for him or her. Would an advocate work in that case? How important is it to have legal representation? Will the deputations explain why barristers are involved in so many of these cases? That is what is driving the costs up to what I consider to be extortionate rates. The total cost is €15 million, an extraordinary figure by any standard. I look forward to the responses. Does Dr. Muldoon want to start? We will continue along that way. Please be conscious that these will probably be your closing comments.