Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I thank all of the witnesses for their useful presentations. The Minister will be coming before us after this session and we will put some of the points raised to her. We have reached the stage of discussing the heads of the Bill. We hope that the points that have been made will influence the direction of the legislation. That is the point of pre-legislative scrutiny.

Dr. Muldoon suggested that amendments might be tabled. Do the witnesses wish to suggest specific amendments? Ms Ghent recommended inserting in head 5 a measure that would allow someone to advocate on a child's behalf, for example. Any recommendations would prove useful to us as they would allow the legislation to be strengthened on later Stages.

From what the witnesses said, I understand that there are constitutional issues with the heads, as drafted. I mean that they do not fulfil the rights of a child under Article 42A in that the word "shall" rather than "may" is used in respect of hearing the voice of the child.. I shall pursue the issue of ensuring that all children have access as opposed to leaving the matter to the discretion of the courts. I would like to hear how we can strengthen the position in that regard.

Dr. Muldoon made a point about non-verbal children and those with disabilities, as did Senator Devine, and Deputy Neville spoke about using play therapy, etc., to alleviate the stress associated with going to court. Will Dr. Muldoon elaborate on how the court might hear the voices of children who are not in position to express their views verbally. Obviously, communication would take place via the GAL who, I presume, would have some way of communicating with the child. Do we need to include anything in the legislation in this regard?

I want to discuss with the witnesses, mainly with those from EPIC, the benefits of having an advocate as opposed to a GAL. At a previous meeting, we heard from Barnardo's about a child and it seemed that the GAL did an awful lot more than sit in court. He or she explained things to the child and there was an element of the GAL advocating on the child's behalf. Can a GAL fulfil the role of an advocate? Is there a need to have an advocate? Perhaps the other witnesses can answer my questions.

In terms of heads 3, 5, 6 and 8, there are specific things that we, as a committee, should recommend in order to ensure that the legislation is as strong as possible. We would welcome the help of the witnesses in terms of these matters.