Ms Gillian Westbrook:

In response to Deputy Cahill, Bord Bia does an 18-month inspection rotation. However, current regulations require that organics be inspected once a year. The Bord Bia scheme is very good and very valuable, but it is very different with the two steps backwards and two steps forward. It does not have a legal basis, but the organic scheme has. In other words it actually follows food law. It does not just take in cross-compliance and other horizontal legislation; it takes in legislation specific to organics. That requires us to recruit people who are qualified for that. Our recruitment programme incorporates some onerous training.

We look at the input into the farm, the farm itself, where it goes from the farm and then back again. That is a very simplified approach. That is at import and export level. We also look at import information. Not meaning to be disrespectful to the Bord Bia quality scheme, there is much more to it. It is much more complex.

The traceability side is enormous. For example, during the horsemeat scandal we saw a huge increase in consumer purchasing of organic meat because consumers understand there is a lot more to that. A problem with a product going on to a farm can affect everything from there on in. There is a considerable amount of work to be done on that.

On the issue of the five bodies undertaking inspections, there are really two of us. One organisation specialises only in aquaculture. Another organisation has left Ireland because the cost of running a certification body is so prohibitive. The other one has only five or six clients; it covers a very specialist biodynamic area. Therefore there are only two actually working in Ireland.

The average market price of beef is €4.70 per kg. It has always averaged 20% to 27% more than conventional beef - it once reached 37% more. On the dairy side the premium is about 22.8%. There is a market. That is what makes it viable. At BIOFACH the EU Commissioner said the he supports organics because it is the rising star. The organic farming scheme is 75% co-funded because it is viable and they are trying to support that potential. Most organic farmers agree it is viable. For example, on a 21 ha suckler-to-finishing farm there is a gross margin of €1,775 per ha when the top conventional farm is just over €1,000 per ha. That is an excellent example to give. It is why it is so keen for them to add value by using the organic system and promoting a viable farming system and adding that value to it.

Costs will vary depending on the farm. As the Deputy will know, average fertiliser costs are critical, particularly for dairies. When that cost is removed, it starts to become more viable. If dry stock farmers look at the input costs and use the farming system as a closed system, which it is, that would make it viable. The Irish Organic Farmers and Growers Association ran a series of economic events to demonstrate that. We showed it warts and all to try to demonstrate to farmers where the costs and potential savings are. There is a tillage farmer in Wexford who made more money on 25 ha of organic tillage than he did on the remaining 75 conventionally-farmed hectares. It is a viable system. Many of our farmers are making a comfortable living out of it. Mr. Liston has an 11 ha farm which employs 14 people and exports to markets such as Dubai and the UK. It is not all about beef and sheep. There is a lot of value in the horticultural sector.

May I respond to the remaining questions?