Willie Penrose (Longford-Westmeath, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I thank the witnesses for their attendance and presentations. Do I detect an annoyance at the level of negativity that has been focused on the tardiness of payments? That seemed to be a big issue. Do I detect an annoyance from both witnesses who spoke that there was too much focus on it and that such negative comment might impact negatively on people who might want to go into organic farming? People might feel there is going to be a big delay. What do the witnesses suggest for the payment structure and system because the Department can be very tardy? Notwithstanding that the witnesses are doing a good job of certification and various things and have a very high professional input into that whole area, the Department can certainly annoy people in the way it goes on. What way do the witnesses see that this could be effectively streamlined, as has been mentioned, so as to ensure that the positive aspects of organic farming can be promulgated?

One thing about organic farming is that it is not a cheap business. I note the presence of Mr. Pat Lalor, who is no stranger to this committee. He was here about 15 years ago as president of an organisation. I welcome him back. He has gone into organic farming. Perhaps he could give us the costs associated compared with the traditional enterprise he engaged in. He has produced oats and products like that. It has been well received across the country. If one is flying out of the airport, one will see it, thankfully. It is about trying to get the consumer to buy into it. There is a significant differential in the value of it. As I am not much use at shopping, I am not a great barometer but one would hear housewives say that. That is one point.

I feel that organic farming has a huge role to play in the promotion of its environmental benefits. I believe that is where a huge push can be made to make it significant. That is something that the organisations can do themselves. While I acknowledge the organisations have various leaflets and put out bulletins, trying to get that across to the public is extremely important. Trying to get policy makers to adopt it is another problem. If they did get policy makers to adopt it, they might get a greater share of money from the Department. They are talking about trying to get an extra €15 million or €20 million or thereabouts.

What have the organic producers done to highlight that they need that level of money? Organic product is excellent from a health and consumer viewpoint and also benefits the environment. There are several areas they could focus on to get that.

On beef, Bord Bia has been fastidious regarding quality assurance. I know the Irish Organic Farmers and Growers Association rightly has detailed levels of inspection, investigation, invigilation and certification. Can it not work with Bord Bia to complement its system? Most farmers would claim that Bord Bia has gone to the level of the Irish Organic Farmers and Growers Association. I know the logo is very important as is the Bord Bia logo indicating quality assurance. There is nothing to be lost having that complementarity. I do not believe the Irish Organic Farmers and Growers Association logo will lose anything if we incorporate the Bord Bia certification and quality assurance process into it.

Earlier today we were speaking about Brazilian beef now coming in; Mr. Pat Lalor would be very much aware of it. We are the direct opposite of that. We have excellent quality beef with green image, including organic beef, going out. We are competing against that with our certification standards while they are destroying us on price and may well undercut us and destroy our market.

What is the level of exodus from the farm organic scheme at the end of each cycle? We were given to understand that things might be different, that there is a group of people who maybe get fed up of the whole thing and it is not as productive and not as worthwhile at the end of the cycle. Do the witnesses have any view as to what the level is?

We are all talking about the Austrian model where 15% of output is organic. How can we progress to beyond 1% or 1.1% up to that level? How could we even get to the 4% or 5% level? Let us leave the Austrian model to one side and leave that market as they have obviously a very focused area. Notwithstanding that, the witnesses said that they adopted the same certification model as we did. That was very interesting. They have eight bodies certifying. That is interesting as well. It is good information to have. How can we increase the level against all the naysayers? People are still price sensitive and it may well be a very important factor. How can organic producers be helped to address that at input level and all the work that has to go on at that level to continue the carbon reduction process that is also tied into the organic production system?