Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick City, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I thank the witnesses for their presentations. Mr. Finlay started off by saying that Grace and the babies in Tuam have taught us a lesson. Sadly, we need to listen to this lesson. That is the first message. I first came into the Dáil in 1998, around the time the Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse was established. There was an apology from the Taoiseach of the time and so on. We thought that we were recognising what had happened in the past. Nearly 20 years later we are discovering again the appalling neglect and lack of a voice of children in very vulnerable situations. The witnesses have certainly brought that home to me this morning.

Both witnesses have rightly emphasised the issue of a rights-based approach. There has to be a right to a guardian ad litem. In drafting this legislation, my first question would be how we can ensure that every child within the courts system, at least, would have that right, so that it would not just be at the discretion of the judge. I know there are other children outside of the courts system who might also benefit. Are the witnesses satisfied that the legislation does provide this right to every child? If they are not, how can we alter the wording of the legislation? I suspect this will touch on some of the points the witnesses have made already, particularly in their written submissions.

I would like a bit more clarity on how exactly the witnesses believe the system should be run. Both of them have suggested that the issue of guardians ad litembe dealt with directly by the Department, or else by another independent body, rather than by Tusla. The legislation suggests it should be Tusla.

The witnesses have pointed out that the guardian ad litemshould not just be an expert witness for the court but should be the voice of the child. The witnesses have given some documentation around how that should be implemented in their written submissions. Could they elaborate on this? Our job is to feed into the legislation as it is being drafted and to ensure that it is as strong as possible.

I was reading the case studies from Barnardos. One was about Sally, a girl who was in care early on and was given back to her mother's care between the ages of four and six. She was found out in the open with nobody looking after her and was brought back into care again. Eventually it became established that something awful had happened to her in those two years. The guardian ad litemin this case appears to have been involved all the way through, right up to her 18th birthday, ensuring that Sally understood all the way along the line what the care provision was going to be. What I understood from the case study was that the guardian ad litemenabled the child to trust the system. How comprehensive can the role of the guardian ad litembe? Based on that case, it does not appear to be just a matter of appearing in court with the child but seems to be something of a broader role.