Mr. Conor O'Kelly:

Yes it is twice the rate but twice the rate when rates are 10% is not the same as twice the rate when rates are 2% because one is getting all-in funding in real money terms. One can forget about the absolutes and the relatives. Interest rates are extraordinarily low. In our opinion they are unlikely to stay extraordinarily low for a very long time. Future citizens and taxpayers may not be able to borrow at such attractive rates for 25 years. The risks are asymmetric. There is an opportunity to borrow all-in equity and debt at between 4% and 5% for a project where the PPP investor takes the risk on delivering the building, managing the portfolio for 25 years and then handing it back to the State in a condition that can survive another 20 years. One is paying 2% to 3% above the rate at which one could do it oneself and that is what one is paying for. It is an environment where we should probably be looking at that as a reasonably attractive option, irrespective of-----