Mr. Brian Kavanagh:

That may be the case in some instances. I do not have direct knowledge of it. The licensing of trainers is a matter for the Turf Club.

The second issue in the stable staff crisis is that people are getting heavier. Almost all riders on the track or in training centres in the US are South Americans. I suspect that is part of what the trainers are looking at. That is a real worry to me. It is a real worry for the industry. It is difficult to argue that this is part of our heritage, that we are good with horses and use it as a unique selling point and then say that we need to develop staff from overseas. That comes back to us. Ms Eade has some information on this area.

In the last two years we have appointed Carol Nolan as our first executive with specific responsibility for industry training, education and staff development. She is working with the breeders' associations, the trainers' associations and individual trainers to look at best practice. She was involved in that deal. That deal is a minimum arrangement to try and put some structure on terms and conditions of employment for staff.

Although I am not an expert in this area of working time directives and derogation, I understand that there was previously a joint labour agreement covering stable staff. That agreement included a derogation from the minimum working time directive. The agreement was then set aside, and a new agreement was reached between the trainers' association and the stable staff association in regard to minimum wages. The derogation was continued in that agreement. The negotiations between the trainers and the stable staff reached an impasse in the final quarter of last year. Carol Nolan got involved and was able to broker an agreement.

The wording on the minimum working time directive was continued through into the agreement.

In terms of compliance with legislation and tax codes, HRI is in a position where it would not condone any non-compliance. Equally, the nature of our business is unusual. It is not the only unusual business in terms of the times and seasons people work, but it is a question of working with the relevant authorities to-----