Willie O'Dea (Limerick City, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I thank both groups for their presentations. At the outset, I note that both my party and I are concerned about these proposals and what I have heard today does nothing to allay my concerns. One thing that jumps out at me from the Money Advice & Budgeting Service, MABS, presentation is that in 2009, when the then Department of Social and Family Affairs was running the show instead of the Citizens Information Board, CIB, there were four staff dealing with the entire operation. There are now 74 staff employed by the CIB, if I am reading it correctly, and they are having difficulty managing. I am not clear on the reason for the radical restructuring proposed.

I have some specific questions for the CIB. Ms Mangan stated in her presentation that everyone will be going to the same place, everyone will be doing the same job and nothing will visibly change. I assume that only applies during the process of the restructuring. Can she give the staff, who have been in touch with me and many of my colleagues, any guarantees as to what their position will be when this is all over? I took time to speak to people who through my constituency clinic, I had referred to MABS. I spoke to some volunteers and staff in MABS. Every person to whom I spoke, without exception, was horrified by this proposal. The representatives of the CIB should indicate what sort of consultation there has been with the stakeholders and the clients who are the people this is supposed to serve. The feedback coming back to me is there has been no consultation.

One would need to be an actuary to follow some of the figures flying around but as far as I can make out, no cost-benefit analysis has been done. There are vague statements that this will cost less and there will be money left over that can be put into front-line services. On the other hand Mr. Clarke makes a compelling case that this could actually cost more, which would mean the taxpayers of this country could be asked to fork out more money for the same services or alternatively, depending on the state of the budget, the service could actually be cut. That is the last thing we need in this country at this point in time given the expanded responsibilities MABS has taken on.

I also wanted to ask about volunteers, who volunteer locally. All the people I know in Limerick who volunteer to work with MABS and other local organisations have no interest in working with an organisation in Waterford. At a stretch, they might consider the part of County Clare that adjoins Limerick city. Volunteers tell me that they have no interest in volunteering in a regional situation. If something is done that will risk losing volunteers then the whole thing is in danger of collapse. What strikes me is that in the UK, which has been doing this for longer than us, they have both embraced the present situation we are now trying to radically change and are boasting about it. The report of the UK's Citizens Advice service of 2014 states "Our bureaux are staffed with local people who are passionate about their local communities and sensitive to local needs." MABS is based on a local-volunteer ethos and we appear to be moving away from that and taking a gigantic step in the dark. There has been no dialogue or cost-benefit analysis. If this does not work out the unfortunate clients of MABS will suffer, that is, the front-line people who are struggling with their mortgages and debts. They are the sort of people who come to me and who are at the very sharp end of society. The people I speak to praise MABS and the work it is doing. The clients do not see any difficulty and there is an old saying that if it is not broken, why fix it.