James Reilly (Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I welcome our guests and thank them for their presentations. Part of the reason they are here is that we are examining the Bill. I am very concerned that an impression would be created that there is not a problem. We need to identify the size of the problem in a much clearer way than we have to date. There is a moral guidance. Whether it is 2% or 20%, people are being abused. If the law is insufficient to deal with it, the law must be changed. I am very glad to hear all three parties have engaged with the Department and made submissions. Clearly, they have suggestions to make. Regardless of the size of the problem, there is a problem. Everybody knows and accepts that.

ISME and Chambers Ireland have many members who are involved in SMEs. It may not be such a big problem for IBEC, whose members tend to be bigger employers. We need their help and guidance as to where the specifics of the Bill are causing problems for them. I can understand Mr. Talbot's statement that it seems like a sledgehammer to crack a nut. However, we are trying to find out how best to address it. The witnesses have engaged with the Minister and I would be very grateful if they could give us some guidance on where they feel we could nuance the Bill's provisions to protect workers.

The Bill purports to protect workers who are consistently working longer hours than they are contracted for. We will get into the nitty gritty to ensure it does that and nothing else. Some people say six months is too short and maybe a year would be better in order to accommodate the seasonal element about which people have spoken. In those circumstances, there is an issue that must be addressed. This is the witnesses' opportunity to give an alternative approach to how it might be addressed. They have asked us questions and we will have to go and get the answers. This is our opportunity to ask the witnesses questions and perhaps they might give us some direction and answers.

I am struck by a few statements. With all due respect, a student who is working a certain number of hours and is then going to be available for additional hours, has clearly not been working those hours on contract. That is what the Bill is supposed to address. I struggle with the concept that nursing homes take on additional staff in the winter time. It has not been my experience, although I can fully understand that with people being more ill, in theory they would need more help. I would be keen to hear from the witnesses on how we can help address the issue, and if not through the Bill, through what mechanism. There is definitely a problem which we need to address.