John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

Senator Horkan referred to Ms Lavin's submission as a personal story. Senator Kieran O'Donnell questioned whether she was naïve. We must understand that anyone in business who has come across this issue since 2008 could tell a similar story. People are not in business to go broke; they are in business to be successful. It was a new experience for businesses, big and small, when they were hassled and muscled by the banks from 2008 onwards. That is what is missing in this piece. If one is a developer, it is a bad word. If one is in business, one is are supposed to be able to look after oneself but the banks did not look after businesses. In respect of the strong arm felt by Ms Lavin, I have heard that story on numerous occasions. I have heard on it in respect of what happened to families. I sympathise with Ms Lavin regarding the death of Aidan Cullen. There are similar stories everywhere and that is what this committee must grapple with and understand. Much of the devastation in family homes and businesses was caused by the banks. While they covered their own backsides as quickly as they could, they inflicted terrible pain and suffering on those with whom they were dealing. It was brave of Ms Lavin to come forward - I know she has been on other public forums - to explain this matter and put it in context so that other families and SMEs will see that although their figures might be different, their stories and their treatment are the same. It is not just about GRG. It is right across the banking sector. Mr. Beades said that when the history of this is written, it will put us all to shame, particularly in this House, where we had the opportunity to introduce legislation and did not do so and where we had the opportunity to insist that the existing legislation under the remit of the Central Bank was not forced into act and did not do so. That is where we have fallen down.

The question arising from Ms Lavin's contribution concerns where we were go from here. We have agreed as a committee that on a quarterly basis, we would meet with the Central Bank and put all these issues and other issues of concern to us on the agenda. I assure the witnesses that, as Chairman of this committee and with the support of members, I will fulfil that agenda and keep this on the agenda along with the other matters for as long as possible until we see action. In her presentation, Ms Lavin said that Ulster Bank lied, which is pretty strong language, but we should do what they are now doing in the US and call it like it is. If that is the case, Ms Lavin has been asked to point it out to us. We would like to see it and will take it with the Central Bank. Ulster Bank has not written to Ms Lavin, as it committed to do, which I find astonishing, particularly in light of the hearings we have had and the request that it would engage directly with her in this manner. We will have to remind it of the transcript that exists of the commitment that was made. The committee will support me in asking the clerk to write again to Ulster Bank to determine what it will do about the matter.

I am clear in my mind that the Central Bank said that it would meet Ms Lavin's group and was interested in hearing from it. I hope she will take up that invitation. It will help us in our deliberations and actions at future meetings in respect of commentary and so on. In her submission, Ms Lavin said that the John Mann, MP, has asked the Serious Fraud Office in Britain to open an urgent investigation into RBS.

Does she think something similar should be done in Ireland?