Mr. Séamas Ó Muilleaneoir:

For the simple reason that at present, the credit unions have 3% of the household market of €150 billion debt. They have €8 billion or thereabouts in excess deposits that they cannot lend for a range of reasons.

In a property market, for example, one of the ways the credit unions want to develop is to get into the mortgage market. I think they would be stone mad, given that houses and property prices are three times what the average salary can justify. It is a black hole for the credit unions.

One of the things the German consultants hammered home to us was the need to bracket the banking business, and they suggested the credit unions stick with what they do, lend in their bracket of €20,000 to €25,000 or thereabouts without being too definitive about it. They could create a new entity that could lend up to approximately €500,000 or €600,000 and another one above that again. There is no comparison between the individual in the bank or credit union who is a risk adviser and has to determine whether somebody should get €10,000 or €5,000 and somebody who wants €480,000. In the next bracket there is a level of expertise, procedures and a range of issues at stake.

We absolutely believe in the credit union movement. The paper we are about to publish will make it abundantly clear. With the stroke of a pen the credit unions could structure the public banks in their own areas. If six or ten credit unions in south Dublin got together, they could establish a new public bank overnight almost. They have everything they require, such as the outlets, offices and funds.