Clare Daly (Dublin Fingal, Independent) | Oireachtas source

I wish Mr. O'Leary the best of luck in his new position and thank him for attending.

I do not have huge knowledge of the legal aid process, but where I have encountered it, I found it largely inaccessible. I have never met or represented anybody who managed to receive civil legal aid. That is the problem. Let us be clear about this. Most people cannot access civil legal aid. That has been my experience. That is not Mr. O'Leary's fault and I am not blaming him or personalising the matter; it is just an evaluation of the process. There must be a complete overhaul of how the system is administered. Is it not the case that the law centres are the only places that deal with civil legal aid applications and that for an ordinary practising solicitor to qualify or be vetted and approved, as appropriate, to provide free legal aid, he or she must undertake a huge volume of free work to such an uneconomical level that most do not do it? I am not sure, but is that a correct characterisation of the process?

On the number on the waiting list, there are obviously financial and repossession cases, but there are also family law issues. In many instances, my experience has been that women in a vulnerable position have not been able to receive free civil legal aid where timing is of the essence and there is a certain urgency. In these circumstances having a waiting list is not acceptable. What is the story in that regard? It appears that there are very few people who can provide a civil legal aid service. The other aspect is repossession cases. The number turning up in such cases without representation is growing. Is Mr. O'Leary saying there is now somebody in every court who will go to every person involved in a repossession case and say, "I am the local fellow here and if you want some legal advice before the case is heard, you can talk to me"? If that is the case, I was not aware of it.

On criminal legal aid, I do not wish to be derogatory, but from visiting courthouses in many parts of the country it is something of a gravy train for solicitors who take on free criminal legal aid cases. The same solicitor stands up in every case. It is cursory representation. One gets the impression that he or she does not know the person involved and does not care. He or she makes the same points in every case. It is like a treadmill and completely unacceptable. What level of oversight is there in that regard? A legal firm which is seeking to be approved by the Legal Aid Board must make an application in every jurisdiction. Can that system be overhauled? There should be just one application to cover all counties, rather than having a solicitor vetted in each county. It is increasingly becoming a problem in the District Court around the country. Because of a certain cosy atmosphere in these courts, a defendant might wish to be represented by someone from outside the jurisdiction, yet his or her legal firm in Dublin, for example, must be vetted in Clare, Kerry or another county. From the point of view of simplifying the bureaucracy involved, surely one application should cover every county. Would that not help to streamline the process and save an enormous amount of administrative resources? It is a practical suggestion.

In addition, will Mr. O'Leary deal with the legal aid custody advice scheme? I understand the fees being paid under the scheme are incredibly low. They almost act as a deterrent in making it difficult for legal practitioners who might wish to take on prisoner cases. If they wish to do so, there is a substantial cost involved because the fees are lower. Is there a difference between the fees paid under the scheme and those paid under other schemes? Will Mr. O'Leary outline the fees paid in such cases or how it works?