Louise O'Reilly (Dublin Fingal, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

I thank the witnesses for their presentation. Mr. Fitzgerald said that too often there is an ideological debate about private health care. I would say that too often there is not.

As I understand it, there is no crisis in respect of recruitment and retention in the private sector. That exists in the public sector. How do rates of pay for the staff in the private sector compare with those in the public sector? We can exclude nurses because there is a direct comparison. I refer specifically to support staff, canteen staff, theatre porters and people like them. Are they directly employed or are they agency staff?

What functions are outsourced within the private sector? I am also interested to know how many of the people the association represents have collective agreements with recognised trade unions. When we talk about the beds, one cannot compare like for like. Obviously, an ICU bed is not the same as a bed for somebody who is recovering from an operation overnight and who will go home the next morning. With regard to the numbers of high dependency beds and ICU beds, how would the private beds compare with the public system in the number of beds that would be reserved for high dependency activity?

To pick up on Deputy Naughton's point, does the Private Hospitals Association have any figures on patient transfers? I am open to correction if I am wrong but my impression is that many people are transferred from the private sector to the public sector when their care needs become more acute, or we could say more expensive. Patients are transferred by ambulance, using probably a public ambulance or certainly an ambulance paid for by the public purse, into the public system from the private system. I note that two hospitals participated in HIPE, the hospital in-patient enquiry scheme, but they do not do so now. It is very difficult for public representatives when we do not have these figures. Perhaps Mr. Nugent could comment on that issue. I may be looking in the wrong place and I am open to correction in that regard. There is, however, an impression that we do not have much information about the private health system. As I said, two hospitals participated in HIPE and now they do not. Will the witnesses comment on that and on the availability of information?