Martin Heydon (Kildare South, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I thank the officials for their presentations. Some of my questions might cross over others asked already. Ms Graham mentioned that the water debt from the local authorities did not transfer over to Irish Water. Could she outline the amount involved, who picks up the tab for that or where is that taken care of as and from now?

I refer to the comparison in terms of the operational expenditure. Is it fair to say that by 2021, the establishment of Irish Water will have brought about savings of approximately €400 million, if we look at the figures of €1.1 billion and €695 million in those first few years?

The regulator was before the committee last week. When we consider the level of pressure and scrutiny it is putting on Irish Water to bring about further savings and efficiencies in the coming years, is it fair to say that a comparable level of pressure was not put on the local authority system to be as efficient during that time or was there always pressure on the local authorities to try to do the best they could in that regard? How do they compare?

In terms of the figures, to be clear, the Department of Housing, Planning, Community and Local Government is saying that if there are no water charges in 2017, €114 million of Exchequer resources will be required. Does the Department of Finance agree with that figure? Is there clarity on that?

How was Irish Water funded in 2016? In particular, I would like to see the comparison between the first six months, when charges were in place, and the second six months. In terms of the Exchequer, where did the money come from for that? Ms Graham referenced €50 million to fund non-public water services. Is that €50 million part of the €114 million or is it in addition to it?

This question is specifically for the Department of Finance. If we move away from a charging mechanism, ring fencing will be a key area for us as a committee. One of the main advantages of having a charging mechanism was that we had a dedicated pot of money for investing to ensure we all had treated water to drink, that we put an end to raw sewage flowing into our rivers and that we were able to fix the many wastewater problems. Without some type of ring fencing of a pot of money for water and wastewater services, my fear is that we will go back to the mistakes of the past where Government decided that the hospital and the school would always win over pipes in the ground that are not visible to the public. I am concerned that we may go back to a process of not investing enough in our system. Would Mr. McCarthy accept that the mistake made in the past was that when that pressure came on in difficult financial circumstances, decisions were made to not invest as much as should have been invested in water and wastewater services? As a committee, that will be key to us in terms of any recommendations we make to the Oireachtas because we must ensure those mistakes are not made again. If we move away from charges that would have brought in a pot of money that could have been used to invest directly in those services and without ring fencing of some type, we will have a difficulty in getting an assurance that the work Irish Water needs to do in the coming years from a conservation and quality water perspective can be done because the resources may not be made available by future Governments.