Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

This is an area we all have an interest in because in the course of our business as public representatives we generally come across issues pertaining to HIQA and data protection on a daily basis. On HIQA, I agree entirely with the two previous speakers with regard to the decongregation model. I do not agree with it in any situation. It seems to have taken on a life of its own and, like it or not, it is going in a particular direction. I have serious doubts. Legislators should have some access to a means whereby questions can be raised and the process can be halted in certain circumstances, or that it could be amended in a way that is more amenable to the requirements of the patients, be they children or people with special needs.

I was a member of a health board during the time of the Grangegorman closure and scaling down process. I heard all the arguments that were put forward about the aftercare and the degree to which attention would be paid to the alternative provisions that were going to be made. It did not happen that way. We have seen some issues arise repeatedly, particularly in relation to homelessness. Again and again, those issues were not addressed. I am worried about what might happen in some of the circumstances we are talking about now. I do not want to name specific institutions.

When considering children with special needs such as educational, physical or sensory difficulties, I am not sure that decongregation will serve them well. I suppose I am only a passer-by but it has not yet been proven to me that it would serve them well. Similarly, we should consider hospitals that cater for older people. I run foul of HIQA on a regular basis in questioning the re-creation of private hospital wards for individuals in all cases. It does not apply in all cases. In some of those cases the patients have a collegiality that has existed for years and they rely on each other for support. From an operational point of view, the nursing staff in such places can observe ten patients at a glance without having to enter ten different private rooms to find out precisely what is happening and it can contribute to the efficacy, efficiency and delivery of a service to the required quality in such circumstances. I would like to know how we can deal with this in a way that would make us feel, in some way, in a position to influence what happens. We do not seem to be able to do so. We were not able to do so in the situations I have referred to.

I will now turn to the issue of data protection. I cannot allow the occasion to go without having a little one to one with the Data Protection Commissioner. I opposed the Data Protection Act on its introduction to this House, and that is not today or yesterday. I opposed it for the very reason and the very fears that eventfully became the issues that have caused this problem. I foresaw that public representatives would be affected by the Data Protection Act and they are, but they should not be affected by it. This issue applies to health and all aspects of life. I am not blaming the Data Protection Commissioner as this is something I pointed out at the time, but we now have a situation where one can readily obtain information by way of a freedom of information request which one cannot get through a parliamentary question. The primacy of the parliamentary question should go without saying. We are either in a parliamentary situation or we are not. There are no circumstances in which a senior, superior or primary body should have access to information that is restricted from the parliamentary system, or our whole parliamentary system is undermined. I can see all the grounds for friction between HIQA, the health services and the Data Protection Commissioner. I cannot see, for example, how the transfer or swapping of information will be done smoothly in the future for the benefit of research, patients, quality of patient care, etc., if there is a further process to be superimposed on the system where a person has to go back and forth, on a number of occasions and making a written application justifying their existence, before they get an answer to their questions. I do not think that is going to work or can work. I worry about it.

Reference has been made to care for children and direct provision. This refers again to HIQA, and rightly so. There have been instances, and like others here I have dealt with a fair number of those cases in recent years. I saw serious difficulties in the community which were far worse than cases in direct provision. People were not registered, did not have a Garda National Immigration Bureau number and were floating around in the community while vulnerable, especially small children. I have come across countless cases, as I am sure have other members, where there may be one parent doing his or her best to ensure that he or she could care for their children. They are staying downwind of the law, which would be ready to deport them at the first opportunity if they did not have the proper registration, and they are taking risks in the course of this that would not be at all advisable and that would be obvious to some third party. I am not sure the witnesses can shed any light on that now. I refer to these issues and compare them with the need for the rapid response, and there are such needs, which are regular and not occasional. I am interested in hearing the Data Protection Commissioner's comments on this issue. I could go for a lot longer as the Vice Chairman knows but-----