Mr. Alan Stewart:

Looking at the notes of the calls, it is quite clear that the legal team that was on the calls - remember that we were talking to the legal people - were still saying that they were getting to grips with the facts. Deputy Cullinane can see that in the notes. When we asked a question and they professed they wanted to be transparent about things, only tell us a certain amount and also tell us separately that they were still getting to grips with the facts, it was reasonable to conclude that they might not have established all the facts and that the people in PIMCO to whom we were speaking might not have known.