Mr. Seamus Boland:

The first question raised by Senator Hopkins and Deputy Grealish concerned the RSE limitations. We are really and truly devastated. Let us take the logic of what is so wrong with this, beginning with the under-25s. These young people are starting out and trying to get going, so the last thing they needed was this put on top of them. Effectively it tells them that they cannot participate at all and therefore cannot get started. It disencourages young people from becoming involved in farming.

The logic surrounding the six-year period is even worse, so they will have to re-examine the whole programme. If people are told that they will only have six years on this programme, after which their income will still be below average, they will go back to the same type of poverty as before. This is against the spirit of the rural social scheme. It should be recalled that it is an under-employment programme and was not supposed to be like CE or the other programmes. If not, it should be left as it is. However, if it is going to be turned into that kind of scheme, one needs to find out what will happen to the person after six years. What is being said in this respect to under-25 year olds who might get involved in farming?

A question was asked about energy. There is a lack of policy for allowing farmers to develop energy projects, even using their own land. That is linked to co-operative programmes and an energy co-operative would be a good development. For example, Tipperary Energy does a lot of work in this regard. That could be replicated and should be examined as a wider energy solution.

A number of committee members, including Senator Ó Clochartaigh, spoke about replicating the work of the WDC or Údaras na Gaeltachta. The Buchanan report on regional development was published in the early 1960s but it should now be reconsidered. It goes back to the banking issue, including developing a strong region either by the WDC or other means. Each region needs an economic generator, which is the solution.

I was asked what sort of assessment was needed for the rural transport programme. Let me be clear that it is a social conclusion project. In my opinion, the value for money report was too narrow. It examined expenditure but did not consider the value afforded to those gaining the services. Therefore, the assessment should look at social inclusion as well as what the rural community transport programme offers in terms of other services. In addition, it should examine how the transport service can be widened to include other social services, including bringing people to visit in the evenings.

The joint committee is seeking an assessment in that regard. The value for money report was much too strict and resulted in the programme being frozen. The freeze needs to come to an end.

Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell, among other Senators and Deputies, asked about rural banking services. I do not have enough time to address the issue in detail, but I would be pleased to meet the Senator to discuss it. She is concerned about post offices and credit unions. We favour the Sparkasse model in place in Germany, although local community banking services operate in most European countries. We have proposed the establishment of eight regional banks, each of which would be autonomous and manage its own financial and banking operations and related matters. They would, by and large, lend to the small and medium enterprise, SME, sector, which means that they would not encroach on the territory of credit unions. They would not be designed to compete with or cause problems for credit unions. The German version of a credit union, known as a co-operative, works hand in hand with local or regional banks. In Ireland, some credit unions have considerable finance, some of which could be channelled through the banking system and managed in that way. That would strengthen the credit unions' role locally and ensure a wider pot of funding would become available. We have proposed that this model be explored. I do not propose to offer 101 answers to all of the questions asked. Once the proposed exploration was completed, a better model might emerge. In that regard, I thank the Chairman for pointing out that this is a no-brainer. In the 1970s we had ACC Bank and ICC Bank and I was a beneficiary of the former. I walked into a branch as a long-haired 18 year old looking for £500 to set up a small piggery. No one else would even let me in the door, never mind consider giving me a loan. However, I had a business plan and an adviser from ACOT, the body that preceded Teagasc, and the only institution that was willing to lend to me was ACC Bank.

Senator Marie-Louise O'Donnell asked what was wrong with the banking system. The problem is that it has reverted to type. While the new regulations have been introduced for good reason, they mean that banks can no longer show flexibility. Local banking offers relationship banking, which costs far too much money for mainstream banks. If I lend a person money, I will want to visit the person to whom I had made the loan a year later to see how he or she is getting on, whether he or she is in trouble and so forth. This approach costs money, but it can be done under the relationship banking model we are proposing and which the SME sector needs.

Deputy Michael Collins referred to the Leader programme and Irish Rural Link. We spoke out strongly on this issue, as did other organisations. Irish Rural Link is a national, voluntary community organisation. We would love to be more involved in the process of negotiating the rural development programme and assume a role similar to that performed by the major farm organisations. At the time we stated we had fears about the Leader programme. I do not disagree with anything Deputy Michael Collins said on the topic.

Deputy Danny Healy-Rae referred to planning, an issue that needs to be examined. Complaints are being made about planning, especially by small businesses, some of which are being asked not to establish businesses on farms and to move instead into major towns. The problem is that many such businesses are more suited to a farm premises than an industrial estate in a different location.

I apologise sincerely if I have overlooked some of the questions asked. Irish Rural Link is available to discuss any issue with individual members or political parties. I acknowledge the work done by Ms Louise Lennon and Mr. Noel Kinahan who accompanied me. We appreciate the opportunity to appear before the joint committee.