Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I can answer the Deputy's questions, even though we have dealt with the section. On section 11 as opposed to section 12, the provision does not relate to child benefit but to the supplementary welfare allowance. The proposed amendment will amend the definition of a qualified child under the supplementary allowance scheme to ensure that the qualified child allowance payment is only paid in respect of children who are ordinarily resident in the State. This measure will bring the conditionality of the supplementary welfare allowance scheme into line with other Department of Social Protection schemes. The supplementary welfare allowance scheme is a safety net within the overall social welfare system and provides assistance to eligible people who are in the State whose means are insufficient to meet their needs and those of their dependents. The basic supplementary welfare allowance is a weekly allowance paid to eligible people who do not have enough income to meet their needs and those of their families and may be payable while such people are awaiting the outcome of a claim or an appeal for a primary social welfare payment. It does not affect child benefit. It is simply a restating of the fact that people cannot receive the qualified child allowance for a child who is not living in the country.

On section 12, I have a lengthy reply for the committee because the Free Legal Aid Centres, FLAC has also been in touch with my Department about this section. This reply gives me the opportunity to put on the record the answers to some of the questions posed by Deputy Joan Collins.

The purpose of section 12 of the Bill is to underpin the process whereby my Department contacts employers to verify continuing employment specifically for child benefit purposes. The provision is modelled on existing provisions for other social welfare schemes such as the family income supplement, FIS, and the back-to-work family dividend, BTWFD. My Department is empowered by these provisions to contact employers to verify employment details in order to establish entitlement, new or ongoing, to benefits. European Union, EU, European Economic Area, EEA, citizens and Swiss nationals working in Ireland qualify for child benefit under EU regulations. Their children may be resident either here or in their home countries. The child does not have to be resident in the country but the parent does. Where the children are resident abroad, customers are required to confirm their continued entitlement to child benefit every six months. The confirmation includes a statement from the customer's employer or their spouse or partner’s employer confirming that the employment is expected to continue.

While it is absolutely correct to say that the employment status of an Irish parent is immaterial to a child benefit claim, all child benefit customers claiming under domestic legislation must satisfy the habitual residence condition.One factor to be taken into consideration in determining habitual residence is the nature and pattern of a person’s employment. Persons are exempt from satisfying the habitual residence condition if they or their spouse or partner are currently employed. So, by establishing that they are employed, they do not have to go through the process of verifying habitual residence because, by definition if they are employed here they are habitually resident. For these reasons, it is sometimes necessary for my Department to have access to information on the employment of the customer or his or her spouse or partner.

In general, the onus is on customers themselves to prove to my Department that they qualify for any social welfare payment they are applying for, including child benefit payments. However, situations can arise where it is less problematic for the customer if my Department contacts employers directly in order to confirm employment. For example, difficulties can arise in the case of child benefit when information on employment is required and where the information does not refer to the customer but to the spouse or partner of the customer. This is particularly difficult in separation or divorce cases where the customer may not have the co-operation of the spouse, partner or former partner in terms of supplying the required information. This can lead to a situation where there is an entitlement to child benefit but where the processing of the claim can be impeded. Contacting employers directly removes this difficulty for customers in that situation.

My Department has access to social insurance contribution records. However, these records only become available at the end of the tax year and are not available to the Department in real time. This means that they can only be updated in arrears but while my Department routinely requires employment information for benefit purposes in real time, to await updated social insurance records would delay payment to customers. The practical thing to do, and the most customer-focused solution, is to contact employers directly where the customer is not in a position to easily provide the necessary information him or herself. These inquiries with employers are not made on a routine basis and there are no plans to change that. Having this provision in place will ensure that my Department has a robust legislative basis to make these inquiries where the need arises.

I will sign the necessary regulations if this section of the Bill is enacted. These regulations will set out the elements of the information which will be sought from employers for child benefit purposes.

I will now turn to the specific questions raised by FLAC. On the first question, it is correct to stay that the employment status of an Irish parent is immaterial to a child benefit claim. However, all child benefit customers must satisfy the habitual residence condition and one of the qualifying factors for that condition is the nature and pattern of their employment. For that reason, it is necessary for the child benefit section in Letterkenny to have access to information on the employment status of one or both parents or partners.

On the second question, while it is correct to say that the onus is on customers themselves to prove to the Department that they qualify, difficulties do arise in the case of child benefit, as I have already outlined. I have also already addressed the third question posed by FLAC. The fourth question relates to casual work. FLAC has expressed the opinion that such work does not count but this is not entirely correct. EU Regulation No. 883/2004, Article 1, subsection (a) reads as follows:

"activity as an employed person" means any activity or equivalent situation treated as such for the purposes of the social security legislation of the Member State in which such activity or equivalent situation exists.

Confirmation of such employment is required to establish an entitlement to child benefit.

Regarding privacy, the Department is aware of the obligations of the data controller and makes every effort to avoid breaching these obligations. The provisions contained in the proposed legislation already exist in terms of most schemes operated by the Department and have been successfully implemented over the years.

I hope that clarifies the matter. To cut a long story short, it is not a provision designed in any way to take child benefit from people who are legally here and habitually resident. Rather, it allows us the legislative basis to contact employers. Once we know that people are here and in employment in Ireland, we do not need to go through the rigmarole of working out whether they are habitually resident.