Mr. Tony O'Brien:

He is. I have told him definitively that this is a much more complicated issue and one of the factors we must address is that these centres described as emergency departments have quite varying capability. They operate to different hours.

It is not unusual for blue light ambulances to have to remove patients from the vehicle to public accident and emergency departments. The term "accident and emergency department" has no specific meaning that makes one comparable with another. Therefore, this must be done carefully. Mr. Woods has indicated the dialogue is ongoing to the extent that when it is safe, practical and reasonable to use those private facilities, they will be used, and when it is not, they will not be used. That is and must be our position.