Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour) | Oireachtas source

Deputy Doherty spoke about the consultation I initiated with the Minister. There is a great deal of bogus self-employment in Ireland and it is not helpful to the long-term sustainable growth of the Irish economy not to review our systems with a view to limiting this. It is pervasive in other areas, too. Has the Minister received any report on the outcome of Revenue's examination? Many people in Revenue have been very anxious about this. There is a great difference between self-employed businesspeople, who set up firms and employ other people, and people who are forced into being treated as self-employed in the construction industry. The difficulties down the line for many individuals are quite significant. Construction is, by and large, a young man's game and it is very difficult to convince 25 year olds and 30 year olds that by only paying the 4%, they are not looking after their own best long-term interests. They do not believe they will fall off scaffolding or end up injured in some way, leading to life-long difficulties. They also do not believe that, even if the industry picks up again, it may go into a decline at some later stage.

At such a stage and particularly if their partner or spouse is working, they will not qualify for any kind of unemployment assistance support. It has really big consequences for many individuals who then become quite impoverished. If they also have children and other family dependants, the whole family can become impoverished. While it is an industry issue, it is also a really big social issue. It also concerns the sustainability of our social services. We know that it is spreading like wildfire across different types of businesses where the gig economy exists and you pick out a self-employment part of a job and identify people as contractors. Again, quite a lot of this is happening in IT. The work of people in IT is often much more sustainable and long term than that of people in construction. It is one thing when people are in their 20s but when they get into their 30s and have no framework for longer term sustainable employment, it has huge implications for their place in society and is very difficult for them. It is an economic and social welfare issue but it is also a societal issue in Ireland. Could the Minister give us an update on where the study is?

Revenue and the Department of Social Protection are collaborating in carrying out examinations at sites. In respect of school building, which was a specific concern for the past number of years and where the State was paying top dollar on the contracts, the former Minister for Education and Skills, Ruairí Quinn, actually got the Department of Education and Skills to hire what were in effect private investigators to check out the sites to see what was happening. Trade unions and ICTU are very familiar with the outcomes. If Revenue and the Department of Social Protection go on site, they check people out and find that they are registered. I do not know what is happening. Do they have two sets of books - one for when they are working in the normal economy and another that is under the table or off the regular books? It is a very big problem here.

We are also seeing a return to an increase in immigration. The Minister spoke earlier about a potential shortage of skilled building workers. If people from countries like Poland come in and are outside our system, it is a mug's game for us if they are not fully registered for tax and insurance. They are competing against good firms who are paying people properly. This is what happened to the Minister's predecessors at the height of the Celtic tiger. If we go down that road again, it will be a mug's game for Irish society. People will come, be bogusly self-employed and not contribute to social welfare. The people who are paying PAYE will have to pick up the tab. Ultimately, the people paying their contributions will have to pick up the tab.

Nobody is saying there is an easy solution. It is a very tricky area to legislate for but this is a critical area in terms of looking for reforms in the Irish system. If people want to set up their own businesses, that is the best thing in the world and we have developed lots of supports for them. However, if they have no choice, are at the lower end and are really stuck in a seriously unprotected area, that is all our loss and a particular loss to the individuals involved. I ask the Minister and his officials to give some thought as to how we could work together to address what is an awful problem.