Ciarán Cannon (Galway East, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

I welcome all the representative of the universities. This is an exceptionally valuable opportunity for us as parliamentarians to be able to engage with them and gauge their opinion on how we should move forward. The critical point is that we move forward and that there is no further prevarication or procrastination in respect of what is an exceptionally difficult challenge, and what is, equally, an exceptionally important opportunity for us to finally get the funding in our third level system right.

We have been discussing the issue of how third level education should be funded and the amount of that funding. There is no obligation on any member of the deputation to answer my next question but what is their view of the autonomy they have, as university heads, in determining how money is spent within their institutions? They are denied a certain degree of autonomy in how it is spent. Do they believe this impacts directly on student outcomes? If they had a greater degree of autonomy over how all university resources were spent, could the universities manage those resources better? Does this challenge arise for the universities on a daily or weekly basis? Is it something the Irish Universities Association has discussed in the past?

We may not agree with the mechanism used to derive the rankings. We may believe they do not reflect the holistic nature of third level education. However, Dr. Browne and others have outlined how important they are in terms of how we are perceived internationally. I was fortunate to be able to travel with several members of the deputation to many destinations in Asia some years ago to market Ireland as a destination for international education. In fact, our education system and the current high standards represent one of our greatest exports. We earn almost €1 billion per year from international education. It is an exceptionally well-regarded system internationally, but it is becoming less so. I recall speaking to one agent, as they are described, in India in 2012. He said that if a university was outside the top 50, he would not consider it. Increasingly, that is becoming a factor. If we do not get this right, there is the potential to descend into a downward spiral where there is less and less investment in our system in terms of international education. The perception that is positive at the moment, as described by Dr. Browne, could begin to become exceptionally tarnished. That is something we need to be careful about.

Is there anything we could be doing now to improve rankings? Is there something that would not require a significant investment, although might require some investment? Are there some buttons we could press within the system now that would amount to beginning the journey back to a point where all our institutions are to be found in the upper echelons of the international rankings?

Professor Barry spoke about the national training fund. This country has one of the highest third level participation rates in the world. That is a good thing and is a fantastic story to be able to tell. The numbers are increasing all of the time. Ireland, as a society and demographically, is moving from a point where its further education and training system was viewed as an end in itself. One simply reached the end of the system as a young student and stayed there. One took whatever training and FET opportunities that were granted by the system and used them within the workplace. Increasingly, the FET system is described as and perceived by parents, young people and people working in the FET system as a conduit to third level education. That is a positive development. I agree with Professor Barry that a mechanism must be found to allow some of the resources accumulated in the training fund to find their way into third level. If that is the way students are going then resources should follow them. That is my opinion on the matter.

Professor Deeks spoke about the Australian system. It is fantastic for Mr. Cassells and his team to consider international models that have been employed as it affords an opportunity to see pitfalls and successes. Australia has a loans system, as referred to by Professor Deeks. Australia also has a banding system that reflects the cost per student of his or her education throughout the third level system. In Ireland, it costs on average €8,000 per annum to educate a third level student and a medical student costs €30,000 per annum. It is a fact that an arts graduate who undertakes a H.Dip. course and becomes a second level teacher has far less earning capacity than a cardiologist. I have a question for Professor Deeks but he is not obliged to answer. Does he believe that situation should be reflected in the design of the system? If we move to a point where each individual contributes, should it reflect his or her future earning capacity? More often than not future earnings are closely aligned with the cost of his or her education.