Aengus Ó Snodaigh (Dublin South Central, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

In response to both Deputies, I have never said I am opposed to engaging in joint exercises or training abroad or working with countries within the European Union, but that is not the point. The issue is whether we are aware that in making these decisions that over time we will become more dependent which will undermine our ability to take decisions for ourselves. This is a tiny country and we do not have huge destroyers or tanks on the scale similar to that in Germany or anywhere else and no one is suggesting we should. In fact, in some ways, there is no need for us to do so because we are a small nation on the outskirts of Europe. We have some skills that we can sell, as I mentioned, and we can train others. That is the benefit of co-operation. However, one has to be careful about the underlying trend, which is why I have continuously raised this issue. If I did not raise it, I would not be doing my job.

There is a concern. A huge number of people in the State are concerned about the drift towards the militarisation of Europe and the world and have voted in different referendums at different levels and on occasion have won. We have to satisfy our concerns by asking questions. Every time we engage in international co-operation or take part in international operations with countries which are involved in military alliances, we must ensure we do not compromise ourselves in any way. I have accepted the bona fides of different Ministers and programmes. I am not opposed to use of the virtual environment. I have just raised questions as to whether it is as secure as we want it to be. If one takes part in a cyber attack simulation, is one exposing oneself? Have we taken steps to ensure those who take part in such simulations will not end up disclosing how Ireland, if it was to come under such an attack, would react?

As I said, NATO has been in existence for 60 years and the European Union is younger. If one looks at history, in particular the history of Europe, most of the countries involved are former imperialist powers, most of which are still involved in imperial adventures abroad. We are not. We have suffered from this and have a different history from most of those with which we are working. While it is cost-effective and efficient to ensure that if we are operating in the Mediterranean, we can use the best others make available because we have only one ship operating in that entire sea, one has to be concerned. The Minister of State reassures us when the questions are asked and it is my job to obtain that reassurance. The Minister of State has done it, as have previous Ministers, but I would not be doing my job if I did not raise concerns.

From relatives of mine in the Defence Forces who have operated overseas and participated in joint exercises, I am aware of the experience they have gained. They have said it is a lot better than sitting in barracks or training on the Curragh because they get to learn from and train others, as we have succeeded in doing. However, we should as much as possible seek to engage in exercise with countries which are not members jof NATO. I am not irrational about the ease with which we can find these opportunities. There is not a huge number of countries near our shores in which people speak English and which would be able to take part in such exercises, but one has to go looking as near to home as possible to make it cost-effective for our soldiers and sailors to benefit from the shared experience and knowledge that comes from these exercises.