Seán Fleming (Laois, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

We are joined by the Comptroller and Auditor General, Mr. Seamus McCarthy, who is a permanent witness to the committee. He is accompanied by Mr. John Riordan, who is a deputy director of audit. I am now dealing with the agenda. No apologies have been recorded today.

Are the minutes of the meetings of 18 and 20 October 2016 agreed? Agreed.

I want to raise a point arising from the minutes. We dealt with the Social Insurance Fund and the large issue of outstanding insolvency and redundancy payments last week when officials from the Department of Social Protection were before the committee. I propose that we write to the Secretary General of the Department to get a breakdown of the companies or businesses that owe money to the Department and ascertain how many of them are still registered with the Companies Registration Office. I accept there will be difficulties in the case of companies that have gone bust and no longer exist because it will be impossible to collect the funds. I suggest we should seek the details of companies that are still trading after being restructured and are profitable, but owe money to the Exchequer in respect of statutory redundancy payments that have not been repaid. We know we will not get the names of the individual companies but we want to get an analysis of the companies that are still alive and could possibly be pursued to get some of the almost €500 million that is still outstanding. We will send that letter and will get a reply back in due course. I just wanted to raise that issue arising from the minutes.

The next item is correspondence received. This morning we received the opening statement from today's witnesses. Is it agreed to note that? Agreed. With regard to correspondence from Accounting Officers, correspondence has been received from NAMA regarding the release of communications with Lazard on the loan sale process as requested by the committee.

We will consider the matter in a moment as part of the work programme because Lazard will attend soon.

The next item of correspondence is 114B(i) and (ii), a letter received from Siún Ní Raghallaigh, chairperson of the board of TG4 regarding contract details of the director general as identified in the 2015 financial statements. This issue appears to be resolved with a new director general in place in accordance with legislation. Is it agreed to note it? Agreed.

Item 115B is correspondence received from NAMA in follow up to a request for information. It will be added to our folder on Project Eagle correspondence. NAMA was here on 29 September. We wrote to it the following week seeking correspondence and item 115B is the reply. We sent NAMA a subsequent letter a week later for further information. The reply will be received today and the members will get it when it is received during the course of the day.

The next item is 102C, an e-mail from Deputy David Cullinane enclosing correspondence from Nua Healthcare regarding concerns about public sector tendering for residential disability services. We deferred the matter last week due to the absence of the Deputy. Does he wish to comment? No. I propose that we write to the HSE on the matter and the Office of Government Procurement for a response, and come back to it when we get a reply. Is that agreed? Agreed.

The next item is 116C, an e-mail from Ms Fay Buckle, clerk to the Welsh Public Accounts Committee, regarding the hosting of an inaugural public accounts network meeting on 10 June 2017. If members are interested in attending, please contact the secretariat.

The next item is 117C, correspondence received from an individual regarding this committee's discussion on Caranua on the presentation of its accounts and governance questions. The letter refers to comments made by the Comptroller and Auditor General but it is unclear to what the individual is referring. I propose that we ask the Clerk to write to the individual to seek clarity. We will come back to the matter. We will consider Caranua as part of our work programme but we will not put a date on it. I propose that we consider including it in our work programme. Is that agreed? Agreed.

The next item is 118C, correspondence received from Deputy Mick Wallace that includes documents released under freedom of information pertaining to NAMA's interactions with Lazard. I appreciate the correspondence that he sent to us for our information. Is it agreed to note it and include it in our files? Agreed.

The next item is 119C, an e-mail received from Mason Hayes & Curran on behalf of Cerberus confirming attendance of representatives of Cerberus before the committee. We have added them to the schedule and agreed the date of 17 November for Cerberus to attend here in public session. Earlier, I mentioned that Lazard has agreed to attend as well and I will come to that when we discuss the work programme.

We have received a very considerable amount of documentation from the HSE on our hearings on sections 38 and 39 organisations. With the committee's agreement, I will ask the Clerk to look at the correspondence before circulation. It is very voluminous and we want to get it in a manner that will be helpful to us. Following a little bit of work on it by the secretariat, it will be sent to us. Is that agreed? Agreed.

The next item is reports, statements and accounts of bodies received since the last meeting. Members can see them on their screens. Bord Bia has a clear audit account, Waterways has a clear audit account and the Credit Union Restructuring Board, ReBo, has a clear audit account.

The next item is the Health Service Executive's patient private property accounts. There is a statement here from the Comptroller and Auditor General that states, "The statement of internal financial control discloses weaknesses in the HSE's control over the management of patient private property accounts and the steps taken by the HSE to resolve these". I note that there appears to be a turnover of €83 million, which is a big amount of funds. Perhaps the Comptroller and Auditor General would like to comment.