Mr. Dónall Geoghegan:

Yes. Deputy Rabbitte asked about the troubles experienced by many settings in terms of the arrangements that they make with Revenue, their staff turnover rates, etc. We do not have much in the way of hard facts on this. Our report, entitled "Doing the Sums: The Real Cost of Providing Childcare", showed that settings were doing their sums all of the time. Ms Heeney mentioned the tendency to drop the comprehensive model of overall day care in favour of ECCE-only or ECCE plus after-school care. This is a major factor. Instead of closing completely, there is a tendency for settings to concentrate on those services from which they at least get a regular income.

I do not have direct answers for Deputy Rabbitte regarding the types of arrangement that settings reach with Revenue and so on. However, we get calls everyday from our members who tell us strongly that they are experiencing major difficulties in keeping and recruiting staff. Recently, someone told us by phone of how, after a key staff member left, she saw no prospect of finding a replacement in her small, rural area. Something like this can cause significant difficulties. It is not always about the national picture, overall numbers and so on. It can be about what happens in a particular locale. Ms Heeney referred to having a capacity plan throughout the sector for the entire country and an examination of where we need to build child care in the coming years.

I will comment on the Vice Chairman's question about what happens and the link between this sector and schools when children start going to school. As a society, we undervalue the importance of play for children. A phrase that is often used is "Play is children's work". It is also their study. They learn through play. They learn to socialise, lead, follow, work as part of a team, fall out and make up again. We adults need these skills throughout our lives. Children also learn how to make sense of the world and interact with it, by which I mean objects and things as well as with people. This lies beneath everything that has been happening in the Aistear curriculum development over the past number of years.

We do not want to "schoolify" this sector. It has much to offer the future of schooling in terms of valuing play.