Mr. Michael Taft:

A study was commissioned, but the Deputy may be correct. The particular study that was commissioned relied on only one academic study on the impact in other countries and cities of franchising out the 10%. Admittedly that OECD study involved a survey of literature so it relied on other studies. However, some of the latter dated back to the 1990s. For example, the Stockholm experience in the 1990s as to what happens when the 10% is franchised out shows a really positive result. All the numbers - depending on what numbers one looks at - just start turning a lot. Subsequent studies in Stockholm found that the situation was not so good because there are factors such as quality fade, lack of investment, regulatory capture and a number of other issues that mean the service fades over time and it is not as strong as the one given by the public transport provider. There are many fixed costs when one looks at what is involved in providing Dublin Bus services. For example, the cost of fuel is the same type of cost that a private provider would have to pay. There is only one really big area in which public transport can become competitive - if that is the word we want to use - which is in the depressing of wages and working conditions. I can provide this information because Unite refers to this and I can send on the information. I know there is a triple-lock for those CIE workers who transfer over, but that is not for new members. Just by the very mathematics, there would have to be a sweating of labour. If it was just about saying that the private sector is more efficient than the public sector, then fine, make that debate. Then, however, one must also say that everyone is to be treated the same with regard to wages and working conditions and make the competition about quality of service. That will not happen because the only way cost can be driven down is through depressing of wages and working conditions. At the time, Unite called on the National Transport Authority to do a shadow exercise - because Dublin Bus would be bidding also - to identify where exactly these savings are to be found. If we talk about the wider economic analysis, economic vision and social equity, it is none of those things if people's wages and working conditions are driven down. That is just a race to the bottom.