Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Wednesday, 5 October 2016

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality

Estimates for Public Services 2016: Minister for Justice and Equality

9:00 am

Photo of Alan FarrellAlan Farrell (Dublin Fingal, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

Many of the points I was going to make have been covered, but I have a couple of small questions and points for the Minister. Following the visit of GSOC not too long ago, the first one is the suggestion and follow-up correspondence from GSOC on the need to review legislation in its area. We have been requested to make suggestions and, or, work with GSOC to achieve that. Does the Minister agree that it would be worthwhile to have a specific meeting or series of meetings with GSOC on the legislative review and, indeed, with the Policing Authority also? The Minister, I know, agreed when the legislation was enacted to have a review period associated with it. Her comments on that matter would be appreciated.

I am very pleased to hear that garda recruitment has gone so well in terms of the numbers who have applied. Clearly, the overtures by the Department and gardaí on entry level pay and other conditions were welcome. Can the Minister outline the estimated cost of the agreement reached with the Association of Garda Sergeants and Inspectors, notwithstanding its current status, in terms of the restoration of pay over a two-year period? Is it covered under this Vote or will it be? Does the Minister have the figures associated with the overall pay structure of An Garda Síochána under Haddington Road over the next number of years?

In line with a matter raised by Deputy Daly, the treatment of prisoners, I refer to an area she touched on, educational programmes. Does the Vote we are discussing cover educational programmes within the Prison Service and would the Minister agree that the rehabilitative knock-on effects of having a solid, robust and worthwhile education programme within the Prison Service would be of great help? I know there are programmes there and am referring, of course, to additional investment and whether that is a policy objective of the Department and of the Minister during her term of office?

Deputy Jack Chambers raised an issue in relation to deployment and I accept entirely the Minister's response that it is an operational matter for An Garda Síochána. However, most Deputies across the State and our Seanad colleagues accept that there was a significant reduction in the number of gardaí when Templemore was closed in terms of resources not being replaced within An Garda Síochána. As such, there is a relevant issue as to whether there is a policy within An Garda Síochána or the Department to address the officers who left various divisions; not necessarily individual stations, because that would be micromanagement, but certainly from a divisional perspective.

We have a fundamental difficulty with statistics as has rightly been highlighted. Statistics are a product of the manner in which they are recorded and therefore there have been problems, most likely for decades, in the way they have been presented. It is difficult, notwithstanding the point that was made very well by Deputy Chambers. We have a problem with the collation of statistics and the manner in which they are presented even with the significant improvements the Minister has highlighted. Therefore, it is not right simply to say that because crime figures are down significantly, the crimes are not being recorded. That is often thrown back. In fact, they have not been recorded properly for decades.

The Minister has systematically increased budgets as did her predecessor over the years. Notwithstanding the funding that has already been allocated through the IT systems of An Garda Síochána, I would like to see the eventual replacement of PULSE. What is the potential cost to the Exchequer? PULSE is obviously extraordinarily antiquated software. An Garda Síochána has decried its deficiencies publicly and privately. It even lacks the capacity to add certain fields for recording purposes.

Does the Tánaiste have a contingency plan?

We are speaking about Brexit a great deal at present, and rightly so, in terms of planning. A major question I have for the Tánaiste on the deployment of officers of An Garda Síochána is whether the Department has a contingency for a hard Border on the island of Ireland. What plans does the Department have to tease out any response that might need to be made over the two years after the clock starts ticking in March?

With regard to allowances for members of An Garda Síochána, a matter I have raised on a number of occasions with the current and former Commissioners and the current and former Ministers is the importance of continuing professional development in An Garda Síochána and providing an allowance for members in order that they can avail of training to upskill themselves and present a better service to citizens throughout the State. I firmly believe An Garda Síochána is a service and not a force and that it provides a service to citizens, notwithstanding its important role in dealing with crime and criminality.

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