John Dolan (Independent) | Oireachtas source

I said earlier that charities are allowed to be charities or are granted that status because they have a public benefit remit. I keep seeing that as the thing that can help us to be more coherent about where and how they fit. A lot of these organisations set up and got into provision by default because they decided to roll up their sleeves and do something. This is not to blame anyone. It is a case of people saying there does not seem to be a door they have knocked on that has the answer for them, so they will get going on it.

From my experience across the broad sector, I get caught up in definitions. Is giving somebody support, advice or contact information a service? I think it is but often when we talk about services, we are actually talking about the hard services and very often the ones that cost the State a lot of money to provide. There is a continuum. In terms of advocacy, support, a place to first listen to somebody and say "this will be all right. Others have got through this and survived", many organisations are very poor at understanding and articulating those things they do.

They have got caught up in the idea that if they cannot say they are providing a service, they cannot get money. There is much dysfunction. Let us be very practical and see what the State can and ought to do best, or what can it do with certain arrangements, contracts, etc.

We should remember there is a third ring in the circus. We speak about the charities and the State but the private sector is involved with this as well, regardless of what some of us might or might not think about it. That is becoming a bigger area. We must figure out in a practical sense what can best be done by an organisation that is generally close to people and which people have an affinity for, and which can be flexible in its responses and stand up for a group. That is important. How do we ensure such an organisation would provide very hard services around the clock? I do not know if that helps in some way. There is a continuum between the private and public entities. There are different ways for the State to ensure the services, as it can carry them out or make arrangements for them. The section 38 and 39 groups add to the confusion in this as well.

May I address some of the other issues?