Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I understand from memory that the capital programme will run until 2021. The Minister did not say whether he believed, in light of population growth and demographic pressures, whether it is necessary to invest in schools and facilities for older people, in other words, the built economy as opposed to employment of staff and so forth.

Our road infrastructure and public transport, particularly in our bigger cities, need further improvement. My colleague may not agree. If in 2018 we come into a surplus, is the Minister suggesting that from then on, rather than funding the capital programme, we would stand aside? We will be in a situation where we are able to get our financial stability back and, as a country, can borrow at close to 0%. I will not forecast what interest rates will be in two or three years. The Minister is essentially talking about taking several million towards the latter end of the capital programme. I appreciate the Minister's comments about overheating. That has to be managed but there are other ways of doing it. I understand why the Minister is attracted by the sound of a rainy day fund but a lot of people will need things such as housing and schools.

I want to explain my point of view. I respect what the Minister has done on the economy but the proposal is not sufficiently thought out. I am putting it forward, as a member of the committee, for the Minister's consideration. It is inappropriate at this point in time when our capital deficit is so low. I will go further - I hope the Minister is having a detailed conversation with our interlocutors in the European Union. I am sure he is. The Minister said some revisions will take place. In terms of the financial rules, we are in a German model but we are not Germany. We all accept that we have to have rules and structures but in terms of the capital investment to provide for growth in the country, a certain amount of leeway is necessary. This was a submission from almost everybody but particularly from the two sides of social partnership - the employers - IBEC - and the trade unions.