Mr. Mark Fielding:

We just do not know, but they can say what they like.

I was asked what I would say to the insurance industry or to say what we are looking for. It is for the total aggregated figures to be made available, the number of claims, the value of claims and the associated legal and professional costs. That will give us the answer and show the contributory factors to the increases. At the moment we do not know, although we know that there has been lazy financial management. We know that back in 2002 - and we have the same again now - the insurance industry did not manage its finances because its players were dependant on investments. We all know it happened to the investment industry. That is what has happened, but it happened in 1998 up to 2002 also. We need somebody who will put manners on these people because they are treating small and medium-sized businesses and the citizens of Ireland with disdain. They just throw the figures up.

Deputy O'Rourke was talking about an incident or a particular company. Just last Friday, one of our member companies which had 11 vans was seeking to increase the number to 19. The 11 were costing it €9,000 to insure while 19 were going to cost €24,000. These are absolutely crazy figures and no talk about it. One sole trader decided to incorporate and form a limited company, so he was no longer insuring his car as a sole trader and private individual but as a company car. His premium went from €650 to €2,200. That is the type of stuff where there is no rhyme or reason. All of these questions have to be asked. It is back to exactly the same position as before. That is what is so frustrating about this. It was done before. We have done this before and are back to the same stuff we were at 14 or 15 years ago.