Mr. Dermott Jewell:

I have not mentioned the term "profits" as it is way out there. We must understand what are the profits and, most important, just how well the money is being managed and spent. Is there an overspend to the degree that it is another factor in the ever-increasing cost, with too much being paid on commission, bonuses, salaries, rents, rates and marketing - such as having a name on a stadium - as well as a variety of other things? We need to find out the outlay and reverse it if necessary. If the State determined tomorrow that we cannot manage this as it is a disaster and if it wanted to set up its own insurance operation, there would have to be a set of guidelines relating to cost-effectiveness. The Department of Public Expenditure and Reform would be great at running an insurance company. Thinking about how to do this is a way of finding out what exactly we are missing that we are not being told. Underwriters and actuaries will tell us very quickly where are the gaps.