Seán Fleming (Laois, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

I will conclude with this. I am looking at the document the Minister produced on budget day. The expected payments on the national debt are set out at C.47 of the public budget document he produced. It sets out two figures for the national debt interest. It refers to the cash payment and then the euro statistic interest payment on an ESA 2010 basis. Mr. O'Kelly knows what that means, albeit most others will not. There is no substantial reduction, however. I acknowledge that Mr. O'Kelly says the debt will sit at €200 million but even in 2021, the Minister is projecting well over €6 billion. It is still a lot of money. Mr. O'Kelly says the NTMA is trying to move it over a period of time but six years down the road, we will still be in the €6 billion to €7 billion range. I know Mr. O'Kelly will say the debt is high but could we get closer to the lower interest rate some other countries have? I ask the NTMA to understand our impatience because we are in the Dáil every week of the year battling over €50 million or €10 million and then we see these types of figures. Every saving that can be made translates into better public services. I know Mr. O'Kelly agrees with that.