Alan Kelly (Tipperary, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I accept the last point but the HSE could have acted more quickly while ensuring services were provided. In doing so, there may have been a better response. That is a subjective view.

I was taken by some of the answers from Ms O'Connor and Dr. Smith. I do not want to put words in the witnesses' mouths but what I got from the submission was that there is an equation between the amount of time and effort taken for auditing and the fact that there are so many organisations, with some of them dealing with smaller amounts of money. One must create a balance and justify it in that sense. There are three categories of funding, which are below €250,000, over €250,000 and section 38 versus section 39. I should say that €250,000 is not Mickey Mouse money. It is an incredible amount of money. That equation needs to change. If one applies to a local authority to get a grant of €8,000 for insulation in a house, there is a volume of checks, balances and paperwork that we all know about. It is incredible. There is one meeting per year about these organisations, with a couple of boxes being ticked on a piece of paper. For the people looking at this from the outside, that cannot happen any more.

I have questions about the governance framework for the Department of Health. It is absolutely unacceptable that the Secretary General of the Department of Health is not here today. There has been a change in the relationship with the HSE and the Secretary General should be here to close that circle. Whoever is representing him here today might answer the following question. Is the Department of Health satisfied the HSE has the best governance framework and controls in place to ensure that public money is being spent appropriately by all these organisations?