Mr. Seamus McCarthy:

I wish to put on the record that when we audit the oversight by the HSE of section 38 and 39 bodies, we examine a sample of those bodies, as I mentioned earlier on. We visit them by agreement. It is not an audit of those entities and, therefore, we do not make a report - or at least a public report - on it. If issues come to light, we bring them to the attention of the HSE. In 2013 one of the bodies that we selected was St. John of God, so we visited its campus. We went through a number of issues with them, including the remuneration of the CEO. We identified a salary being paid from St. John of God community services which was compliant, but what we also identified with them was that there was a top-up payment from another source. We were not told what that source was and we were not told the amount. We saw the CEO's contract but the salary details were blanked out. We informed the HSE of that and, lest it be misunderstood, that information was with the HSE in 2013. Obviously, it was not the only organisation in which we had seen top-ups, and this was happening at the time of the internal audit investigation of top-ups.