Josepha Madigan (Dublin Rathdown, Fine Gael) | Oireachtas source

That is no problem. I thank the witnesses for coming in. It struck me last night when the French tragedy unfolded that we are coming here yet again to discuss something that is completely unnecessary. There is enough tragedy and destruction in the world and what we are discussing today was absolutely preventable. It should not have happened.

I am very conscious of the fact that I am speaking on behalf of the general public here. I would like the HSE, if anything comes out of today, to re-examine how it does business with these particular charities because it cannot happen again. I have not been a member of the Committee of Public Accounts before. However, I am aware that this it not the first time a matter like this has been dealt with by the committee. It is not good enough, quite frankly. Many people contribute, donate and volunteer their services to charities and there are wonderful staff in these charities including in Console. These people do not have a voice and we, in this committee, are their voice. Therefore, we have a responsibility to ask the HSE questions and ask that its representatives be as honest as possible because the people concerned want answers. Last night's events in Nice were horrific but here we are dealing with something like this that was completely preventable.

I am aware that I am limited in terms of the questions that I can ask and that litigation is ongoing. Therefore, I shall not go outside my remit. I hope that the HSE will help me enlighten the public about the matter. This is not about point scoring between me and the HSE. I simply want to find out the truth and a way forward in order to ensure that something like this never happens again.

The formal national governance framework came into operation in 2010. Does Mr. O'Brien think it helped Console at all?