Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Social Democrats) | Oireachtas source

Generally, in situations where everyone is responsible, no one is responsible. That is a concern for the committee.

Mr. McCarthy set out at the beginning of the meeting the standard of good governance, accounting, reporting and auditing that should obtain in any organisation. I am not sure that the HSE meets that standard. I did not get that sense from the presentation. I wish to ask Mr. O'Brien about the strengths and weaknesses of the HSE's oversight arrangements. In his opening statement, he made an extraordinary comment when referring to oversight. He stated: "In this context, and given the limited number of HSE internal audit and compliance unit staff, careful consideration needs to be given to the section 38 and 39 agencies that are subject to audit and review." Mr. O'Brien has told us that one quarter of the HSE's large budget goes to sections 38 and 39 organisations. That €3.6 billion is the equivalent of many Departments or even groups of Departments. It is a considerable amount of money. Why is it that, with a spend of €3.6 billion, Mr. O'Brien is telling us that there is a limited number of internal audit and compliance unit staff?