David Cullinane (Waterford, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

My final question relates to value for money. First, I do not doubt that Console provides quality services and we are all conscious that people working for the organisation provided a top class service to clients and I do not want to take away from that. However, I would like to focus on the call centres. Finding No. 52 states:

Console reduce the number of its helplines from six to two between 2012 and 2014. Console confirmed to internal audit that the cost of running its two helplines in 2014 was €346,652 of which the HSE provided €294,000. During the audit, internal audit was not provided with documentation to support these costings.

Mr. O'Brien is the Accounting Officer who signed the cheque book giving an organisation €294,000 and we cannot find documentation to support the costings. We do not know, and Mr. O'Brien does not know, therefore, whether that money was used for the purpose for which it was intended. If that is the case, he cannot say he got value for money. Console responded to this in the report stating: "With regard to internal audit's comment that information was not provided to support cost allocations for the Console 24-7 helpline, Console confirms that all support information was included in the general accounts framework provided to the internal audit for the years 2012, 2013, 2014. No other information was requested by internal audit for the helpline". It goes on to say, "No HSE request has ever been made to Console management to allocate a specific helpline code in Console's general ledger." The auditors responded by saying, "The issue is not about allocating a specific helpline code in Console's general ledger. The issue is that Console did not provide any supporting documentation during or after the audit to show how it determined these costs as being allocated to helpline costs". On that basis, I cannot see how Mr. O'Brien can again say with accuracy that he got value for money. He can, of course, say that the service itself was a quality service but he cannot say he got value for money if he does not have documentation to support the costs. He is the Accounting Officer. The internal report we are discussing states there are national implications for the HSE. Mr. O'Brien does not grasp these implications at all and there is an element of downplaying this. Earlier, I pointed to the finding that states, "Systemic means that this could be replicated elsewhere in the HSE". Nobody can say with certainty that it is not replicated elsewhere in the HSE. People will not be comforted by anything that has been said because of what is in the report. They will be concerned that the reality of the situation has not been grasped by the chief executive officer of the organisation. That is extraordinary. Will he respond to my questions on the helpline? Given there is no documentation to support the costs, how can he say he got value for money?