Pearse Doherty (Donegal, Sinn Fein) | Oireachtas source

That is the problem. We heard from the ESRI earlier of the number of reports from it which are not being read by all parliamentarians. I am not reading all their reports. We need to be careful in terms of the amount of data we have and the presentation of data. I agree 100% with Professor McHale in regard to the standstill position that should be presented. It gives a false reading by the Department when it does not include that data.

I was at the engagement with the Department of Finance of Finance yesterday and I put the following point to it, namely, the argy-bargy between IFAC and the Department of Finance in regard to the fiscal space, because it is deeply frustrating for me as finance spokesperson. That is my language but Professor McHale will suggest there is no argy-bargy and that everybody agrees. When I put it to the Department that we should include inflationary cost for non-pay items, it said that should not happen and that it is the responsibility of Government to manage budgets and, therefore, within a budget envelope, inflationary costs should be dealt with within that envelope. The reality is that when one is dealing with a health budget where so much of the budget is for pay, there will be health inflation. Will Professor McHale comment on that given the fact he said there should be three sets of data presented, the no-policy change, the assumptions based on the policy intentions of the Government and the standstill position. Given the Department of Finance's view that it should not happen, what is his view on that?

In regard to Professor McHale's interview on " Morning Ireland" where the committee and the public learned what was in his report, I feel he was pulling his punches in that interview but we will have a chance at the finance committee to scrutinise that a bit more.

Regarding the data on the size of the fiscal space in the context of a stand still position, the position of the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council, IFAC, continues to be that it is in the region of €3 billion to €4 billion and not the €8 billion that the Government claims. However, the data that underpin those assumptions have never been released, to my knowledge. If we are to have an informative debate and discussion based on quality information, we must have the engagement that Professor McHale is suggesting with IFAC on a more regular basis during those set pieces and the data that underpin the assumptions of the council must be provided to us. The IFAC is giving its projections for this year, to which I subscribe, but the Department of Finance is saying something completely different. There are figures floating about but nobody is getting to the bottom of it at the end of the day. One body is saying X because it is assuming Y, while another is saying A because it assuming B. The data that underpin all of that must be made available. The council's reports continually suggest that we are not providing adequately for demographic changes but to my knowledge, and Professor McHale can correct me if I am wrong, we have no data to show what provision we should be making for demographic issues.

I will leave it at that. While I am being critical now, I believe that the IFAC has a huge role to play in terms of the rules and the budget. Outside of the set pieces, members of the committee should, if possible, be able to draw on the expertise of the IFAC on an ongoing basis, albeit within certain limitations. We received a briefing document from Department of Finance officials yesterday on the summer economic statement. On examining it in detail, I noted that €3 billion of the fiscal space was being allocated to the contingency fund every year which should, over three years, amount to a €6 billion fund but Table 3 in the statement shows that there will only be €3 billion in the fund. How does that work? These are questions we need to be able to ask the IFAC because the debate is going on but we do not have accurate information. We had statements on it yesterday but we have no expertise to draw on in terms of how the figures are being presented, used or abused.