Professor Ursula Kilkelly:

We are awaiting a response on that. The pragmatic reality of Government priorities must bear fruit in this context. This is what it means to support the type of objectives we are setting out. This is the type of flexibility that we know we need because we have both failed to recruit people because of this issue and are at risk of losing existing staff who are not satisfied. It is crucial that the flexibility is provided to Oberstown to enable us to attract the best staff to the facility. This is a key issue for us.

In regard to the environment, there are a number of issues that arise. We must be realistic about the issue of detention in a facility like Oberstown. As I mentioned, if the youth justice system is operating effectively in terms of the level of diversion we have, we will only ever have in detention those who are most challenging. We have to accept that. This is a measure of the success of the system, in my view, although, I accept, this creates a very challenging environment for staff. In regard to whether we will ever be able to say that the facility is a 100% guaranteed safe environment, I would hope so but I think that is unrealistic. We must ensure that the required staff numbers for the facility are there at all times, which issue I have already addressed, and that those staff are the best trained and supported staff we can have. We have invested significantly in a human resources function on campus, which is working hard to put in place all of the modern infrastructure that will support staff, including proper provision in respect of follow-up and debrief when events happen such that staff are supported within the facility rather than assigned to supports that might be available off-site. It is important that address of all of these issues is within Oberstown as part of the fabric of what we do such that people are not left to cope with these issues off-site while on leave. Another crucial part of this is supporting staff back into work and the creation of a flexible environment to enable staff to return at a pace and in a manner that is suitable for them and meets their needs.

We accept that the levels of absenteeism for reasons relating to injury and so on are too high. We are, again, actively working to ensure that incidents are minimised and that the responses to them protects staff members' interests. In this regard, training is crucial. How staff respond to incidents and the extent to which they work together forms a huge part of the creation of the single campus. We have had three independent entities in Oberstown for decades. Bringing staff together so that they get to know each other and are able to work together in an environment like this is really important. This, again, forms part of our work schedule. Oberstown will always be a challenging environment. All we can do is commit to having the most effective procedures and policies in place to ensure that incidents do not happen and that when they do the response is effective, including in respect of the individual needs of staff. As I said, training is crucial in this regard. We must continue to learn when incidents happen, such that if we cannot manage to eliminate them we know how to respond differently.

On Senator van Turnhout's questions, I can provide the Senator with some information on the remand figures, although I accept the Senator's question is more about ongoing communication. In terms of the facility, we currently have 20 boys on remand, 27 boys serving a sentence and one girl serving a sentence. As the Senator will be aware there are currently 13 17 year olds in Wheatfield Prison. The capacity of the Oberstown facility, operationally, is currently 54, including 48 places for boys in eight-bed units and six places for girls. On the Senator's point regarding girls, I agree that it is problematic that there is only one person in an entire unit but this is not unique to Oberstown. We do everything we can through socialisation and so on to ensure as normal an environment as possible for the individual concerned. This is not something we can control. We simply have to work on that environment being as sociable as possible and on ensuring staff relationships with the young person are good.

It is important to address the issue of more serious offenders and the idea that bigger, more physically strong young people are creating new challenges for us. We have had 17 year olds, and 16 year olds who turn 17, in Oberstown for some time and the challenges for the facility are provided by two things. One is the rolling rate of remands, as that kind of activity in and out of a facility like ours is very disruptive. The fact that there are pre-amalgamation orders means we do not have control and cannot manage the population or where they are allocated within the facility. When the three entities are amalgamated into one we will be able to designate units as remand units only and that will help us to create a more stable environment, both for those young people and those who are serving sentences and who crave the kind of stability they do not have at the moment as remanded young people are in and out of the room next door.

The other challenge is not the more physically strong 17 year olds but the emotionally challenged and immature members of the younger cohort and those with emotive behavioural issues, which stresses the importance of the psychiatric service. Not being able to provide that group of young people with dedicated psychiatric services creates a lot of the disruption.

On the question of ages, the figures from a couple of days ago show we had one 13 year old, two 14 year olds, six aged 15, 21 aged 16 and 17 aged 17. The numbers for 16 and 17 year olds are as they should be within our system and a very significant part of our challenge is making sure the small number of younger people have the services that meet their needs. As Deputies will imagine, a 13 or 14 year old in detention has very significant challenges and that is where we need to focus. The age is less relevant to us and we do not separate them according to age. It is a slightly arbitrary issue.

The report of the CPT to which we are actively working to respond, as we keep these matters on our agenda all the time, was published in November although it was from previous years. I am not saying all the issues have been addressed but they visited at a time of very significant disruption and change for us. We have adopted new policies around handcuff use and we are actively working to address the issue of solitary or single separation and isolation. This is about having an explicitly clear policy that it is a measure of last resort and, under our policy, relates only to young people who pose a serious risk to themselves, to others or to property. We look to ensure that staff are informed and properly trained to administer the policy on that basis and that the systems are in place to properly record the use of single separation in line with the policy. For example, if a young person is admitted and is believed to be under the influence of drugs or to have drugs on their person, we will need to monitor them for a certain time to make sure they are safe and that may be recorded as single separation. In fact, it is part of the admissions process. We work with staff and with our IT systems to make sure we have the right information to help us understand the nature and scale of this problem. We are also part of the work commissioned by the Minister for Children and Youth Affairs, Deputy James Reilly, around the use of single separation and this interaction across the care services and the residential estate is very valuable because it is clear the definitions vary and we are not all being consistent about what we mean.

The final point was on the role of the Oireachtas. The most important thing for us is to be held to account and we are happy to come in here any time to address the Oireachtas and the public generally on what we are doing. We have realised that there has been a gap in communication from the campus and the campus manager, Mr. Pat Bergin, who is doing a superb job in very difficult circumstances during the change process, has endeavoured to improve the level of communication. Part of that involves communication back to staff, on which management has to continue to work. It is a very large organisation so improving communication internally is very important, as is communicating externally. The importance of political and public pressure is evidence that we can effect change in this area, both in terms of eliminating the use of adult prisons for young people and in ensuring the best possible supports and services are provided to those who are detained. Oberstown is evidence of the kind of public scrutiny that is warranted in this area and that is where the Oireachtas plays its role best. I hope I have answered all the questions.