Dr. Greg Foley:

Senator Craughwell was concerned about the fact that we are herding students into third level education. I do not think the argument should be third level or apprenticeships because apprenticeships are dependent on the economy at the time. One cannot suddenly decide to train 1,000 plasterers if there are no jobs. I think the major problem in the third level sector is that it is becoming too homogenous.

Let us look at the first preferences for levels 6 and 7. Back in 2006 there were 40,000 first preferences for levels 6 and 7 courses and 50,000 for level 8.

The number of students who list a course at levels 6 and 7 as their first preference has dropped to 35,000, where the first preference choice for level 8 course has risen to 65,000. What is happening is that students want a level 8 course or nothing. It is no surprise that the dropout rates are highest at levels 6 and 7, even if those students have the same points as those at level 8. We are now at the point where level 6 and 7 qualifications are viewed as inferior as students want level 8 qualifications or nothing. I think the homogenisation of the third level sector will be aggravated when we have technological universities. We will have a third level education system that has 13 or 14 universities and nothing else. There will be no diversity in the system. I think all universities should have the power and should be willing to give students an exit route at level 7. There are many students in the system who are dragging through fourth year. We are seeing a new phenomenon of students failing in fourth year when they should go at level 7. Now level 7 is viewed as a substandard qualification. In ten years time everybody will try to get a place for a level 8 course in universities and no other type of college. Within that we could have a great deal of diversity that would suit people who might want to go to level 6 or level 7. Many of the level 8 graduates are doing level 6 and 7 jobs.