Gerald Nash (Louth, Labour) | Oireachtas source

I thank the Senator for his comments. He comes to the issue with great experience in the marketplace. He is right; it is a very difficult balancing act. Nobody around this table should have any truck with legislating anybody out of a job. Neither should we accept the idea of jobs at any cost. There should be a threshold of decency. Senator Quinn would accept this and the vast majority of employers would want to promote it.

Most employers in Ireland are decent, as Deputy Tóibín said, and see their staff as central to their businesses. Employers spend much money engaging and training staff and incorporating them into the business. However, where a vast number of employers are operating a particular business or sector on "if and when" arrangements, it is ultimately damaging to their businesses. The best thing we can do is to incorporate people into a business, value them and ensure they are part of the success of the business. Other countries have managed to do it and to be very open about it. I call it social democracy. We can have a successful economy and business culture while also ensuring we have the best employment protections available for working people on decent salaries with good protections and prospects. We can all agree on it, and Senator Quinn would agree with me on it.

The law has not caught up with this phenomenon. The 1997 Act and the particular provision on zero hour contracts have been successful in ensuring the Irish situation does not mirror what has happened in the UK during recent years. We can be proud of this. We said, "No, we do not want that type of model in this country." We managed, from 1997 to approximately 2000 or 2003, to have an economic model that worked. We should reflect on this. A degree of flexibility is always required in business and nobody wants to legislate anybody out of a job or make life any more difficult for good, decent entrepreneurs than it needs to be. The root of a successful society and economy is a good, strong, functioning business community and economy and decent investment in our society. This involves, almost by definition, a good, strong employment protection framework.