Mr. Justin Moran:

I agree strongly with the Senator. With regard to engagement with legislators, if we look at the points Deputy O'Dowd raised earlier, legislators have practical first-hand experience and knowledge through dealing with constituents, community groups, residents' groups and disability groups, and if this knowledge is not involved in the discussions on international human rights treaties we have the issue we have discussed several times, which is them happening very far away but not really having a practical impact for somebody looking for home care in Cork or a nursing home in May. If the gap is there, it will not be resolved unless people with experience are involved in it. Age Action Ireland and NGOs represent older people and people in these settings so we can do some of it, but legislators, politicians and elected representatives are very familiar with it and can bring a level of experience to it.

Comments were made on how the discussion itself could bring about change. We speak about conventions and treaties, but change comes from changing mindsets. Unless we have a changed mindset, and an understanding of seeing older people as individuals with human rights and an understanding of how this makes a practical difference, we will not get the convention. This is where the discussion and the debate, either a parliamentary debate or a national debate, is important. It is only when minds are changed that people will open up and start to think perhaps we should look at a convention and consider these options and possibilities. The debate itself will help to change minds, and in doing so will, hopefully, have a knock-on effect on how people create policy today, whether in the Department of Health or the Department of Justice and Equality. If they are forced to be part of these debates and must engage it will, hopefully, have a knock-on effect on how they deliver services and programmes on a daily basis.