John McGuinness (Carlow-Kilkenny, Fianna Fail) | Oireachtas source

It is because the end is getting nearer. The thought has just crossed my mind that we should have, and I must recommend it to whoever chairs this committee in the next session, that both Departments, the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and the Department of Finance, should be brought in together to discuss an overview of the Comptroller and Auditor General's report each year so that we can get a handle on it. I do not accept that the current situation should continue whereby the Department of Finance gives money to the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform or other Departments. I won't say that the Department of Finance is not concerned because I know that it has expressed concern about how moneys are spent. Taxpayers and struggling businesses, in particular, would like to see greater accountability and a greater sense from each Department that they clearly understand that the taxes collected by Revenue are perhaps not being spent with the same diligence and care that Revenue applies to their collection. That is my view, having been Chairman of this committee for the past number of years and from my experience of being a member of the committee some years ago. Someone has to bridge that gap.

I suggest to Mr. McCarthy that when the Comptroller and Auditor General's report is published every year there should be an effort made to hold a joint session with both Departments to bridge the collection and spending of taxes with what is found in the Comptroller and Auditor General's account. We deal with the matter here every year but it is never fully exposed or debated in Parliament. That is where it should be debated, in a general sense, so that we get a handle on transparency, accountability and having proper systems.

It might have ensured that with the appropriate reporting systems within the HSE the one financial system would have been in place a lot sooner. These are the issues that should concern us because what gets counted gets done. I do not think we are doing it at present to the extent that is expected nowadays by individuals who pay the taxes and watch how the tax is being spent.

Is it agreed to dispose of Vote 7 and Chapters 1 to 3, inclusive? Agreed.