Oireachtas Joint and Select Committees

Thursday, 26 November 2015

Joint Oireachtas Committee on European Union Affairs

Terror Attacks in Paris: Discussion

2:00 pm

H.E. Mr. Jean-Pierre Thébault:

First, I thank all the Deputies and Senators for their kind words, for their unanimous support for France and for expressing, at the same time, the feelings of the Irish people, the Irish Government and the Irish main stakeholders. This is very much valued. All signs coming from Ireland have a special value because of the traditional relationship between our two countries.

There were a lot of questions and I am not sure we can tackle them all. I would gladly seize upon the offer of one the members to engage at another time in such a conversation also. Unfortunately, we are not speaking about a one-time event. We are speaking now about a situation that will last. My Prime Minister and President have said that, unfortunately, this is the beginning of a war. It will take time and effort, it will need imagination and it will need solidarity to tackle the issue once and for all. That is the first remark I would make in answer to some of the questions.

What is at stake is not one response but the global response because if we do not act now, as many members stated, the problem will only grow.

Daesh was formed approximately two or three years ago and is already the wealthiest terror organisation in the world and by far one of the most organised. It is also displaying an impressive willingness to extend mass terror not only in the places it was originally born but also, more and more, to new countries. When it claims a caliphate, it is aiming at a very large territorial base, even if it is completely distorting what a caliphate means or what it meant in the past, namely, a place of civilisation. Daesh is distorting the word in the same way it is distorting the word "Islam" for its purpose. The aim is to establish, in the long run, a solid territorial basis, and to wage all-out war. This is why the aim of the French response, and the international coalition we are calling for and trying to bring about, is to tackle the cause of the problem where it is.

In so doing, we are thinking not only about strikes, our own citizens or the citizens of Europe. The first people we are thinking about are the hundreds of thousands in Syria and Iraq who can no longer lead a normal life. We have repeatedly seen images of mass graves, mass executions, women forced into a depraved way of life, children enlisted to execute prisoners of war, and people who happened to be homosexual being burned alive. Maybe we did not react strongly enough when we saw them for the first time. It is mass terror. If it recalls something, it may be the hate of the Nazi regime. Probably, all of us today would say that had we had the opportunity and known what was going to happen back then, we would have intervened before it became too late, before it was established and was too strong to tackle. Today, we still have the opportunity, by targeting the centre of command, training and resources, to weaken and, eventually, annihilate Daesh. However, a military response is not the only response. There must be a severalfold approach including the necessary measures at home and on the ground. We must also ally with all the countries under threat. There is a great need for a diplomatic solution. In my speech, I tried to stress the components of this.

France is very clear on the refugee issue. We do not resile from our commitment. We committed to welcoming 30,000 refugees, and we will honour our pledge. There is no doubt about it. The question is whether the better solution is to open the borders more and welcome people who are fleeing Daesh or for those people to have the opportunity to stay in their countries - places they did not want to flee but from which they were forced - with their families and relatives. If we want to tackle the refugee crisis, it will also be done by acting in Syria and Iraq by opposing ISIS.

A member asked whether people became jihadis because they were alienated individuals who were not given a chance. It is a complicated question. We are not denying that in certain cases we, and many other countries, have not paid enough attention to or acted swiftly enough to tackle the problems that were emerging and this has exacerbated the situation. On the other hand, the people who performed the attacks in Paris were not alienated youths. The head of the group was the son of a relatively well-off tradesperson. He attended an elite school and received a subsidy for it. Another had a stable job working for the local government. He had no reason specifically to feel alienated. He had a job at a time when many would dream of having one. The reasons are not simple. We cannot say people become terrorists because they are alienated. There are no reasons to become a terrorist and perform such a mass attack, even if one has a dissenting view. There are probably other reasons than a feeling of alienation. It is too easy an explanation.

Members are right that we must not confuse Islam with the kind of fundamentalism that confronts us, which is an abuse of what Islam should be. The Muslim community is taking this question in its own hands and tackling it and is willing to say this is not Islam. This is a very important move which we are observing and encouraging in France and in many other European countries, including Ireland. Last Friday, something very important happened in France. Almost all the mosques in France co-ordinated to deliver the same speech, something they were never able to do before. It was a speech of tolerance which took a very strong stance against the existence of any possible link, even in dreams, between the imams' interpretation of Islam and the way the terrorists have abused the idea of Islam. This is an important part of the answer and it must be encouraged. Islam must not only be welcomed but encouraged to take into its own hands, as part of the solution, the question of the abuse of Islam. There are the official places of worship but there are also the social networks. We know the very important role the social networks play in radicalism and fundamentalism. We must all tackle it together at EU and national level.

The wealth of Daesh is a major issue and we urge the EU to tackle it swiftly. The fourth directive on the subject needs implementation. The first step will be to implement it as soon as possible. At national level, we have taken a certain number of steps that will be enforced by decree, due to the urgency. We are ready to engage in a very substantial conversation with all our EU partners to do even more on the issue. I have a document detailing all the measures we are calling for at EU level to tackle the precise question of the financing of terrorism. Unfortunately, most of it is in French, but there is a summary in English.

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